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What does “causing real damage to historic areas” mean? Causing damage in what sense?

LastTrain 1y ago
The umbrella of upzoning often includes relaxing historic review along with neutering enforcement of the same, resulting in the loss of historic structures to make way for new construction.
- pgwhalen 1y ago
  Ah yes, absolutely. I love historic architecture as much as anybody, but I am not a NIMBY and would prefer affordable housing for current and future members of my community more than I would preserving some particular moment in time for myself.
  - LastTrain 1y ago
    Yep. Can't have a rational discussion of the merits we have to start with the NIMBY bullshit already. Because affordable housing is important doesn't mean that historic preservation is not. And vice versa. Have a good one.
    - pgwhalen 1y ago
      I’m confused, what isn’t rational? NIMBYism in the form of historical preservation is perfectly rational, I don’t dispute that. Just noting that I favor housing affordability, which research suggests is at odds with this sort of NIMBYism.
      - LastTrain 1y ago
        First off, you didn't say NIMBYism, you said NIMBY, and I'm pretty sure you understand the difference. If you really don't, I'll spell it out for you: the latter labels the person you are having the discussion with as motivated by greed, dismissing any valid points they may have. It is a lazy way to shut down an argument similar to the old internet standby "virtue signaling". Second, even if you did mean to say NIMBYism, historic preservation is not NIMBYism. By way of a simple example - I am for historic preservation in places I don't even live, not in my back yard. I hope that clarifies things.
        pgwhalen 1y ago
        I don’t understand the difference between NIMBYism and NIMBY other than the part of speech. I also don’t understand the level of vitriol in your responses, I do not intend to shut down arguments or virtue signal. Your association with NIMBYism as strictly economically motivated is a popular and recent one but the term predates and is much broader than that, and being purely motivated by historical preservation on a local level definitely is NIMBYism.
        ThrowMeAway1618 1y ago
        >First off, you didn't say NIMBYism, you said NIMBY, and I'm pretty sure you understand the difference. If you really don't, I'll spell it out for you: What you "spelled out" is not the generally understood definitions. I'm glad you're thinking for yourself, that's usually a good thing. Good on you! That said, when using specific terms, it generally helps to use widely understood terms rather than your own definitons. NIMBY[0]: NIMBY (/ˈnɪmbi/, or nimby),[1] an acronym for the phrase "Not In My Back Yard",[2][3] is *a characterization of opposition by residents to proposed real estate development and infrastructure developments in their local area, as well as support for strict land use regulations. It carries the connotation that such residents are only opposing the development because it is close to them and that they would tolerate or support it if it were built farther away. The residents are often called nimbys, and their viewpoint is called nimbyism. * The opposite movement is known as YIMBY for "yes in my back yard".[4] Please note that the above, makes no mention of greed or virtue signaling for NIMBY or NIMBYism which are define as those folks (NIMBYs) with the attitudes/preferences called NiMBYism. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NIMBY https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NIMBY

The umbrella of upzoning often includes relaxing historic review along with neutering enforcement of the same, resulting in the loss of historic structures to make way for new construction.

pgwhalen 1y ago
Ah yes, absolutely. I love historic architecture as much as anybody, but I am not a NIMBY and would prefer affordable housing for current and future members of my community more than I would preserving some particular moment in time for myself.
- LastTrain 1y ago
  Yep. Can't have a rational discussion of the merits we have to start with the NIMBY bullshit already. Because affordable housing is important doesn't mean that historic preservation is not. And vice versa. Have a good one.
  - pgwhalen 1y ago
    I’m confused, what isn’t rational? NIMBYism in the form of historical preservation is perfectly rational, I don’t dispute that. Just noting that I favor housing affordability, which research suggests is at odds with this sort of NIMBYism.
    - LastTrain 1y ago
      First off, you didn't say NIMBYism, you said NIMBY, and I'm pretty sure you understand the difference. If you really don't, I'll spell it out for you: the latter labels the person you are having the discussion with as motivated by greed, dismissing any valid points they may have. It is a lazy way to shut down an argument similar to the old internet standby "virtue signaling". Second, even if you did mean to say NIMBYism, historic preservation is not NIMBYism. By way of a simple example - I am for historic preservation in places I don't even live, not in my back yard. I hope that clarifies things.
      - pgwhalen 1y ago
        I don’t understand the difference between NIMBYism and NIMBY other than the part of speech. I also don’t understand the level of vitriol in your responses, I do not intend to shut down arguments or virtue signal. Your association with NIMBYism as strictly economically motivated is a popular and recent one but the term predates and is much broader than that, and being purely motivated by historical preservation on a local level definitely is NIMBYism.
      - ThrowMeAway1618 1y ago
        >First off, you didn't say NIMBYism, you said NIMBY, and I'm pretty sure you understand the difference. If you really don't, I'll spell it out for you: What you "spelled out" is not the generally understood definitions. I'm glad you're thinking for yourself, that's usually a good thing. Good on you! That said, when using specific terms, it generally helps to use widely understood terms rather than your own definitons. NIMBY[0]: NIMBY (/ˈnɪmbi/, or nimby),[1] an acronym for the phrase "Not In My Back Yard",[2][3] is *a characterization of opposition by residents to proposed real estate development and infrastructure developments in their local area, as well as support for strict land use regulations. It carries the connotation that such residents are only opposing the development because it is close to them and that they would tolerate or support it if it were built farther away. The residents are often called nimbys, and their viewpoint is called nimbyism. * The opposite movement is known as YIMBY for "yes in my back yard".[4] Please note that the above, makes no mention of greed or virtue signaling for NIMBY or NIMBYism which are define as those folks (NIMBYs) with the attitudes/preferences called NiMBYism. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NIMBY https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NIMBY