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I’ve seen amazing teams, teams I was fortunate to be part of, thrive for years, only to be torn apart during the political ‘awakening’ of the 2020s. The experi

I’ve seen amazing teams, teams I was fortunate to be part of, thrive for years, only to be torn apart during the political ‘awakening’ of the 2020s. The experience left me deeply cynical and firmly against bringing politics into the workplace. It also made me view the ‘everything is political’ mantra with suspicion, because it reminds me of the saying: argue with a fool, and he’ll drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. People who see everything through a political lens want to make everything political, because that’s how they gain power.

andy99 1y ago
> People who see everything through a political lens want to make everything political, because that’s how they gain power. Right- power over others seems to be the primary motivation for bringing up modern politics. I think it would probably be fine to have a classical political debate absent power dynamics at work - say discussing the relative merits of increased government spending vs tax reduction. But that's not the politics people mean now, it's all in-group signaling and getting people to submit.
AnimalMuppet 1y ago
This. The people who say "everything is political" always seems to mean "you have to agree with my politics, and you aren't allowed to ignore it". Such people can get lost; I'll ignore politics to the degree I choose, and I'll ignore you. Now, they do have something of a point, namely that politics does affect (almost) everything. If you remain uninvolved in politics, politics will still be done to you. That is true. I'd be more inclined to listen to them on that point, though, if I didn't get this vibe that they were really saying "everything is political, so you must join the battle on my side of it."
- immibis 1y ago
  Isn't what you described said in reply to people who claim someone is irrationally obsessed with politics as a shield against having to say they dislike that person's politics? Alice: something political Bob: "You're obsessed with politics. Just don't talk about politics. Stop talking about politics." Alice: "Everything is politics. It's impossible not to talk about politics because everything is politics." Bob: what you said
- exasperaited 1y ago
  > The people who say "everything is political" always seems to mean "you have to agree with my politics, and you aren't allowed to ignore it". Nope. When I say it I just mean, everything's political. There is no part of human life that is untouched by some kind of politics. I don't give a shit whether you agree with me or not. I just don't think we can talk about politics if you don't see that politics isn't a narrow profession that people who don't have proper jobs do for a living; it's one of the great flows of human social energy. (Politics and sport: two interlocking alternatives to violence and war. 2026 is going to be a very interesting year because of this)
  - AnimalMuppet 1y ago
    To pick something at random: Five Guys hamburgers. Are they political? Sure, they're affected somewhat by politics. It affects the price of their meat, and the wage they have to pay their workers, and therefore the price of their products. So, yes, they are affected to a degree by politics. But I have no idea whether they lean left or right, blue or red - as an organization, or the owners of an individual restaurant, or any individual employee. Nor do I care. I just really like their fries. That's not political at all. And I claim that much of life is similarly not political. Now, you could say that the owner has some political stance, and you could find out, and use that to decide whether you want to eat there or not. You could, but that's you making political something that wasn't inherently political on its own. Or you could say that the roads I drove there on are the result of political choices. That's also true, but neither Five Guys nor I care. If the city were built differently, I could take a tram there, and they'd feed me just the same.
    - exasperaited 1y ago
      > That's not political at all. And I claim that much of life is similarly not political. Of course it's political -- affected by and affecting organisation, governance, rules etc. You have just temporarily re-defined "political" to mean "the differences between or positions of political parties". It is a particularly US thing that nothing that is political escapes being reduced to party politics; school boards increasingly divide up red and blue, even. But politics is vastly bigger than political parties. Most political issues are independent of party politics until the parties choose their stances on those issues, which they usually do by selecting the position that alienates the least of their base. But the politics exists regardless of the alignment. Politics is how entities with equal power and individual objectives resolve disputes, ultimately. Everything is political. As Bismarck said, "politics is the art of the possible". I wouldn't be so sure that Five Guys don't care about transport policy; I don't know either way. But I would say with certainty that if they do, they donate to whoever says they will fix them in a way that align with their own needs. That too is politics, even if they don't pick a colour.
immibis 1y ago
Everything is political. In my experience, people who say it isn't are saying that because they have a narrow view of politics. Politics is all conflict between people, below the level of violence. People who say this think politics means which party you vote for, but that's not correct. It reminds me of arguing with an art teacher that using 3D modeling software wasn't art because I thought art meant drawing.

andy99 1y ago

> People who see everything through a political lens want to make everything political, because that’s how they gain power. Right- power over others seems to be the primary motivation for bringing up modern politics. I think it would probably be fine to have a classical political debate absent power dynamics at work - say discussing the relative merits of increased government spending vs tax reduction. But that's not the politics people mean now, it's all in-group signaling and getting people to submit.

AnimalMuppet 1y ago

This. The people who say "everything is political" always seems to mean "you have to agree with my politics, and you aren't allowed to ignore it". Such people can get lost; I'll ignore politics to the degree I choose, and I'll ignore you. Now, they do have something of a point, namely that politics does affect (almost) everything. If you remain uninvolved in politics, politics will still be done to you. That is true. I'd be more inclined to listen to them on that point, though, if I didn't get this vibe that they were really saying "everything is political, so you must join the battle on my side of it."

immibis 1y ago
Isn't what you described said in reply to people who claim someone is irrationally obsessed with politics as a shield against having to say they dislike that person's politics? Alice: something political Bob: "You're obsessed with politics. Just don't talk about politics. Stop talking about politics." Alice: "Everything is politics. It's impossible not to talk about politics because everything is politics." Bob: what you said
exasperaited 1y ago
> The people who say "everything is political" always seems to mean "you have to agree with my politics, and you aren't allowed to ignore it". Nope. When I say it I just mean, everything's political. There is no part of human life that is untouched by some kind of politics. I don't give a shit whether you agree with me or not. I just don't think we can talk about politics if you don't see that politics isn't a narrow profession that people who don't have proper jobs do for a living; it's one of the great flows of human social energy. (Politics and sport: two interlocking alternatives to violence and war. 2026 is going to be a very interesting year because of this)
- AnimalMuppet 1y ago
  To pick something at random: Five Guys hamburgers. Are they political? Sure, they're affected somewhat by politics. It affects the price of their meat, and the wage they have to pay their workers, and therefore the price of their products. So, yes, they are affected to a degree by politics. But I have no idea whether they lean left or right, blue or red - as an organization, or the owners of an individual restaurant, or any individual employee. Nor do I care. I just really like their fries. That's not political at all. And I claim that much of life is similarly not political. Now, you could say that the owner has some political stance, and you could find out, and use that to decide whether you want to eat there or not. You could, but that's you making political something that wasn't inherently political on its own. Or you could say that the roads I drove there on are the result of political choices. That's also true, but neither Five Guys nor I care. If the city were built differently, I could take a tram there, and they'd feed me just the same.
  - exasperaited 1y ago
    > That's not political at all. And I claim that much of life is similarly not political. Of course it's political -- affected by and affecting organisation, governance, rules etc. You have just temporarily re-defined "political" to mean "the differences between or positions of political parties". It is a particularly US thing that nothing that is political escapes being reduced to party politics; school boards increasingly divide up red and blue, even. But politics is vastly bigger than political parties. Most political issues are independent of party politics until the parties choose their stances on those issues, which they usually do by selecting the position that alienates the least of their base. But the politics exists regardless of the alignment. Politics is how entities with equal power and individual objectives resolve disputes, ultimately. Everything is political. As Bismarck said, "politics is the art of the possible". I wouldn't be so sure that Five Guys don't care about transport policy; I don't know either way. But I would say with certainty that if they do, they donate to whoever says they will fix them in a way that align with their own needs. That too is politics, even if they don't pick a colour.

immibis 1y ago

Everything is political. In my experience, people who say it isn't are saying that because they have a narrow view of politics. Politics is all conflict between people, below the level of violence. People who say this think politics means which party you vote for, but that's not correct. It reminds me of arguing with an art teacher that using 3D modeling software wasn't art because I thought art meant drawing.