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Isn't medical care less expensive in other countrues than the U.S.? Wouldn't they be able to treat more children if they didn't have to spend money on transpor

Isn't medical care less expensive in other countrues than the U.S.? Wouldn't they be able to treat more children if they didn't have to spend money on transportation, and paid cheaper healthcare costs in Egypt?

Cyph0n 1y ago
1. If a US based charity finds a hospital and doctors that are willing to treat these children for free, why would you look for alternatives? 2. Some of these are likely complex cases in children that cannot easily be handled elsewhere. The US has some of the best hospitals and doctors in the world.
- next_xibalba 1y ago
  > free Free to whom? These arrangements invariably turn into immigration vectors. Data show that refugees and low skill/education emigres are multi-generational net takers from government social programs. They also tend to not assimilate.
  - UncleMeat 1y ago
    How specifically do medical visas invariably turn into immigration vectors?
    - next_xibalba 1y ago
      Once a person sets foot in the US, they get the benefit of US law, thereby allowing the nonprofit-legal complex to activate on their behalf. You think the lawyers and activists won’t instantly start to advocate for granting these people refugee status or jump to some other lane on the basis that these patients cannot safely return to Gaza? Better to not let them in, full stop. Plenty of stable third countries much closer where relief can be provided.
      - UncleMeat 1y ago
        Why do you think that lawyers are not able to provide support for refugee applicants prior to setting foot in the US? Do you have data demonstrating that a significant number of people end up with successful refugee status applications that would have failed had they not come here for medical purposes and where their case is abusive? Or do you consider all refugees coming to the country for any reason to be bad? Should all medical visas be stopped? Just those for Gazans? Just those for countries that you don't like?
  - Cyph0n 1y ago
    > These arrangements invariably turn into immigration vectors. Quite the leap. Do you have data to back this claim, or are you just making it up as you go?
    - next_xibalba 1y ago
      I take as evidence that the involved charities make no claims about when, how, and where their beneficiaries will go upon completion of medical treatment. I would be glad to see evidence to the contrary.
      - oliwarner 1y ago
        I'll say it. Yes, why shouldn't the US offer asylum to children who have been attacked by American made munitions? These immigration scares are getting pretty thin. If anyone needs an escape hatch, it's kids in Gaza. And yes, the US shares some complicity in their plight.
        next_xibalba 1y ago
        And there we have it. You have said the quiet part out loud, which every participant in this discussion knew all along: this is an immigration ploy. > These immigration scares are getting pretty thin Europe would like a word.
        oliwarner 1y ago
        It's a consequence for taking people's homes and livelihoods. Framing that passive state as an active scheme is ridiculous. Europe —generally— isn't starting wars in the Middle East every few years, displacing millions. They rightly feel aggrieved that they have to burden the legitimate asylum claims caused by US action or US weapons.
UncleMeat 1y ago
Maybe. That'd require significant additional international coordination. Is running an inefficient charity so bad that the government needs to step in and stop it? There could be an entirely different conversation about whether this particular group is effective. I really don't care about that. What I care about is that an organization is trying to do something nice to suffering people and then decision makers within the Trump administration decided that this was unacceptable and used an extreme legal hammer to put a stop to it where their only possible motivation is simply rage at Gazans.

Cyph0n 1y ago

1. If a US based charity finds a hospital and doctors that are willing to treat these children for free, why would you look for alternatives? 2. Some of these are likely complex cases in children that cannot easily be handled elsewhere. The US has some of the best hospitals and doctors in the world.

next_xibalba 1y ago
> free Free to whom? These arrangements invariably turn into immigration vectors. Data show that refugees and low skill/education emigres are multi-generational net takers from government social programs. They also tend to not assimilate.
- UncleMeat 1y ago
  How specifically do medical visas invariably turn into immigration vectors?
  - next_xibalba 1y ago
    Once a person sets foot in the US, they get the benefit of US law, thereby allowing the nonprofit-legal complex to activate on their behalf. You think the lawyers and activists won’t instantly start to advocate for granting these people refugee status or jump to some other lane on the basis that these patients cannot safely return to Gaza? Better to not let them in, full stop. Plenty of stable third countries much closer where relief can be provided.
    - UncleMeat 1y ago
      Why do you think that lawyers are not able to provide support for refugee applicants prior to setting foot in the US? Do you have data demonstrating that a significant number of people end up with successful refugee status applications that would have failed had they not come here for medical purposes and where their case is abusive? Or do you consider all refugees coming to the country for any reason to be bad? Should all medical visas be stopped? Just those for Gazans? Just those for countries that you don't like?
- Cyph0n 1y ago
  > These arrangements invariably turn into immigration vectors. Quite the leap. Do you have data to back this claim, or are you just making it up as you go?
  - next_xibalba 1y ago
    I take as evidence that the involved charities make no claims about when, how, and where their beneficiaries will go upon completion of medical treatment. I would be glad to see evidence to the contrary.
    - oliwarner 1y ago
      I'll say it. Yes, why shouldn't the US offer asylum to children who have been attacked by American made munitions? These immigration scares are getting pretty thin. If anyone needs an escape hatch, it's kids in Gaza. And yes, the US shares some complicity in their plight.
      - next_xibalba 1y ago
        And there we have it. You have said the quiet part out loud, which every participant in this discussion knew all along: this is an immigration ploy. > These immigration scares are getting pretty thin Europe would like a word.
        oliwarner 1y ago
        It's a consequence for taking people's homes and livelihoods. Framing that passive state as an active scheme is ridiculous. Europe —generally— isn't starting wars in the Middle East every few years, displacing millions. They rightly feel aggrieved that they have to burden the legitimate asylum claims caused by US action or US weapons.

UncleMeat 1y ago

Maybe. That'd require significant additional international coordination. Is running an inefficient charity so bad that the government needs to step in and stop it? There could be an entirely different conversation about whether this particular group is effective. I really don't care about that. What I care about is that an organization is trying to do something nice to suffering people and then decision makers within the Trump administration decided that this was unacceptable and used an extreme legal hammer to put a stop to it where their only possible motivation is simply rage at Gazans.