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Marketing is lying. Convincing someone to buy something they don’t actually need? Thats a drain on society. It’s become so pervasive we go to great lengths to j

Marketing is lying. Convincing someone to buy something they don’t actually need? Thats a drain on society. It’s become so pervasive we go to great lengths to justify it. But at its core its fundamentally dishonest.

paulcole 1y ago
“1000 songs in your pocket.” Was that a lie when Apple said it about the iPod?
- alansammarone 1y ago
  no,thats true and honest marketing. If the iPod stopped working after a year (low quality), or was easily hackable (low effort) - and they didn't include that in the marketing - then it would be lying (Windows).
itsoktocry 1y ago
Classic zero accountability take. Why are you getting suckered into buying something you don't need because a commercials says so?
- Henchman21 1y ago
  Because a megacorporation hires psychologists (in the form of marketers) to gin up scenarios where class mobility is implied as a subtext in the acquisition of their goods? I mean, who doesn't want to have the fun/get the girls/get the money because they bought {insert product here}? How is one to defend one's self against the constant onslaught of bullshit meant to part fools with their money? How is an individual supposed to have any defenses against that? When they're raised in an endless din of lying noise? Yours is the classic _abusers take_. "If only you were a better person you could stand up for yourself"
  - bfg_9k 1y ago
    People still have agency. It's like when you were a kid and your mother asked you - "would you jump off a cliff too?"
    - piperswe 1y ago
      You'd be surprised how many people could be convinced to jump off the cliff, if billions of dollars were spent on manipulating them into jumping.
- boccko 1y ago
  What? What does it mean for a comment on the internet to be non-zero accountability?
  - Henchman21 1y ago
    I took it to mean my take an implied lack of agency when evaluating advertisements in one's life and if one should act on it. My take would be that one does indeed lack the agency to be able to evaluate ads that way. The environment itself makes it impossible. SNR is way too low to find valid signals to evaluate. The number being purely honest and informative with zero spin must be close to zero.
- tacitusarc 1y ago
  Because you are a generally honest and trusting person and so you believe them when they lie to you.
cootsnuck 1y ago
So what are the people with worthwhile products and services supposed to do then? Just not engage in marketing? Sincere question.
- Henchman21 1y ago
  Yes, that's my take. I'm of the opinion we should outlaw advertising. If your product is good, word will spread via word-of-mouth. But then, I don't exist to do business. Acquiring profit isn't my goal. Acquiring status, rank, or advantage over my fellows isn't my goal. Its the goal of those we let run roughshod over the rest of us justified by phrases like "well its just human nature to be greedy; nothing to be done!" or "If I don't do it someone else will!" This is how low we've sunk: lying is so normalized that we can't envison a world without it.
  - pjmlp 1y ago
    Lets say you're a freelancer, why is a company supposed to hire you then. You are the product, how do you suggest to sell yourself? Companies aren't going to waste time looking into Github, if that is your take.
  - tmcdos 1y ago
    The book SELLING THE WHEEL by Jeff Cox and Howard Stevens is quite good in explaining the lifecycle of every product (not sure about services). Must-read for every product owner/seller/developer.
  - cootsnuck 1y ago
    I mean I don't disagree. One of my favorite quotes I've been saying for years is "Advertising shits in your brain." But at the same time I think only relying on word of mouth is a bit biased against people who aren't starting with an advantage of a pre-existing network for whatever worthwhile service they could be offering. That being said, plenty of successful service based freelancers will tell you most of their business is from referrals at a certain point. It's just hard to get to that point. (I say this as someone who only gets business from referrals right now, but wants that to not be the case.) Yea idk, I totally agree with you in spirit. But I care about practicality and I have found worthwhile services from solo-freelancers via marketing. Good marketing doesn't have to equal garbage. But I feel ya. Most marketing is mind numbing.
dbmikus 1y ago
You can market products that people need. A big part of this is explaining and educating someone about what your product does, another part is just getting the word out there. Every website homepage is more-or-less a marketing page. If no one is marketing a product, then nobody knows about it.
SoftTalker 1y ago
It can be this, but there are a lot of things that people actually do need, and they have choices in what to buy. Good marketing will catch their interest and convert it to sales.

paulcole 1y ago

“1000 songs in your pocket.” Was that a lie when Apple said it about the iPod?

alansammarone 1y ago
no,thats true and honest marketing. If the iPod stopped working after a year (low quality), or was easily hackable (low effort) - and they didn't include that in the marketing - then it would be lying (Windows).

itsoktocry 1y ago

Classic zero accountability take. Why are you getting suckered into buying something you don't need because a commercials says so?

Henchman21 1y ago
Because a megacorporation hires psychologists (in the form of marketers) to gin up scenarios where class mobility is implied as a subtext in the acquisition of their goods? I mean, who doesn't want to have the fun/get the girls/get the money because they bought {insert product here}? How is one to defend one's self against the constant onslaught of bullshit meant to part fools with their money? How is an individual supposed to have any defenses against that? When they're raised in an endless din of lying noise? Yours is the classic _abusers take_. "If only you were a better person you could stand up for yourself"
- bfg_9k 1y ago
  People still have agency. It's like when you were a kid and your mother asked you - "would you jump off a cliff too?"
  - piperswe 1y ago
    You'd be surprised how many people could be convinced to jump off the cliff, if billions of dollars were spent on manipulating them into jumping.
boccko 1y ago
What? What does it mean for a comment on the internet to be non-zero accountability?
- Henchman21 1y ago
  I took it to mean my take an implied lack of agency when evaluating advertisements in one's life and if one should act on it. My take would be that one does indeed lack the agency to be able to evaluate ads that way. The environment itself makes it impossible. SNR is way too low to find valid signals to evaluate. The number being purely honest and informative with zero spin must be close to zero.
tacitusarc 1y ago
Because you are a generally honest and trusting person and so you believe them when they lie to you.

cootsnuck 1y ago

So what are the people with worthwhile products and services supposed to do then? Just not engage in marketing? Sincere question.

Henchman21 1y ago
Yes, that's my take. I'm of the opinion we should outlaw advertising. If your product is good, word will spread via word-of-mouth. But then, I don't exist to do business. Acquiring profit isn't my goal. Acquiring status, rank, or advantage over my fellows isn't my goal. Its the goal of those we let run roughshod over the rest of us justified by phrases like "well its just human nature to be greedy; nothing to be done!" or "If I don't do it someone else will!" This is how low we've sunk: lying is so normalized that we can't envison a world without it.
- pjmlp 1y ago
  Lets say you're a freelancer, why is a company supposed to hire you then. You are the product, how do you suggest to sell yourself? Companies aren't going to waste time looking into Github, if that is your take.
- tmcdos 1y ago
  The book SELLING THE WHEEL by Jeff Cox and Howard Stevens is quite good in explaining the lifecycle of every product (not sure about services). Must-read for every product owner/seller/developer.
- cootsnuck 1y ago
  I mean I don't disagree. One of my favorite quotes I've been saying for years is "Advertising shits in your brain." But at the same time I think only relying on word of mouth is a bit biased against people who aren't starting with an advantage of a pre-existing network for whatever worthwhile service they could be offering. That being said, plenty of successful service based freelancers will tell you most of their business is from referrals at a certain point. It's just hard to get to that point. (I say this as someone who only gets business from referrals right now, but wants that to not be the case.) Yea idk, I totally agree with you in spirit. But I care about practicality and I have found worthwhile services from solo-freelancers via marketing. Good marketing doesn't have to equal garbage. But I feel ya. Most marketing is mind numbing.

dbmikus 1y ago

You can market products that people need. A big part of this is explaining and educating someone about what your product does, another part is just getting the word out there. Every website homepage is more-or-less a marketing page. If no one is marketing a product, then nobody knows about it.

SoftTalker 1y ago

It can be this, but there are a lot of things that people actually do need, and they have choices in what to buy. Good marketing will catch their interest and convert it to sales.