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As an aside, marketing isn’t bullshitting. Peddling non sense on LinkedIn mostly is bullshitting. It can be very lucrative bullshitting and I’m happy to fork t

As an aside, marketing isn’t bullshitting. Peddling non sense on LinkedIn mostly is bullshitting. It can be very lucrative bullshitting and I’m happy to fork the money to people devoid of any sort of ethics when I have to leverage it while sharing your overall opinions on LinkedIn influencers. But there is significantly more to marketing than that and some of it (pricing strategy, distribution, understanding your sales channels and building relationships with your key customers for example) is actually interesting and can be very analytical and factually grounded.

Henchman21 1y ago
Marketing is lying. Convincing someone to buy something they don’t actually need? Thats a drain on society. It’s become so pervasive we go to great lengths to justify it. But at its core its fundamentally dishonest.
- paulcole 1y ago
  “1000 songs in your pocket.” Was that a lie when Apple said it about the iPod?
  - alansammarone 1y ago
    no,thats true and honest marketing. If the iPod stopped working after a year (low quality), or was easily hackable (low effort) - and they didn't include that in the marketing - then it would be lying (Windows).
- itsoktocry 1y ago
  Classic zero accountability take. Why are you getting suckered into buying something you don't need because a commercials says so?
  - Henchman21 1y ago
    Because a megacorporation hires psychologists (in the form of marketers) to gin up scenarios where class mobility is implied as a subtext in the acquisition of their goods? I mean, who doesn't want to have the fun/get the girls/get the money because they bought {insert product here}? How is one to defend one's self against the constant onslaught of bullshit meant to part fools with their money? How is an individual supposed to have any defenses against that? When they're raised in an endless din of lying noise? Yours is the classic _abusers take_. "If only you were a better person you could stand up for yourself"
    - bfg_9k 1y ago
      People still have agency. It's like when you were a kid and your mother asked you - "would you jump off a cliff too?"
      - piperswe 1y ago
        You'd be surprised how many people could be convinced to jump off the cliff, if billions of dollars were spent on manipulating them into jumping.
  - boccko 1y ago
    What? What does it mean for a comment on the internet to be non-zero accountability?
    - Henchman21 1y ago
      I took it to mean my take an implied lack of agency when evaluating advertisements in one's life and if one should act on it. My take would be that one does indeed lack the agency to be able to evaluate ads that way. The environment itself makes it impossible. SNR is way too low to find valid signals to evaluate. The number being purely honest and informative with zero spin must be close to zero.
  - tacitusarc 1y ago
    Because you are a generally honest and trusting person and so you believe them when they lie to you.
- cootsnuck 1y ago
  So what are the people with worthwhile products and services supposed to do then? Just not engage in marketing? Sincere question.
  - Henchman21 1y ago
    Yes, that's my take. I'm of the opinion we should outlaw advertising. If your product is good, word will spread via word-of-mouth. But then, I don't exist to do business. Acquiring profit isn't my goal. Acquiring status, rank, or advantage over my fellows isn't my goal. Its the goal of those we let run roughshod over the rest of us justified by phrases like "well its just human nature to be greedy; nothing to be done!" or "If I don't do it someone else will!" This is how low we've sunk: lying is so normalized that we can't envison a world without it.
    - pjmlp 1y ago
      Lets say you're a freelancer, why is a company supposed to hire you then. You are the product, how do you suggest to sell yourself? Companies aren't going to waste time looking into Github, if that is your take.
    - tmcdos 1y ago
      The book SELLING THE WHEEL by Jeff Cox and Howard Stevens is quite good in explaining the lifecycle of every product (not sure about services). Must-read for every product owner/seller/developer.
    - cootsnuck 1y ago
      I mean I don't disagree. One of my favorite quotes I've been saying for years is "Advertising shits in your brain." But at the same time I think only relying on word of mouth is a bit biased against people who aren't starting with an advantage of a pre-existing network for whatever worthwhile service they could be offering. That being said, plenty of successful service based freelancers will tell you most of their business is from referrals at a certain point. It's just hard to get to that point. (I say this as someone who only gets business from referrals right now, but wants that to not be the case.) Yea idk, I totally agree with you in spirit. But I care about practicality and I have found worthwhile services from solo-freelancers via marketing. Good marketing doesn't have to equal garbage. But I feel ya. Most marketing is mind numbing.
- dbmikus 1y ago
  You can market products that people need. A big part of this is explaining and educating someone about what your product does, another part is just getting the word out there. Every website homepage is more-or-less a marketing page. If no one is marketing a product, then nobody knows about it.
- SoftTalker 1y ago
  It can be this, but there are a lot of things that people actually do need, and they have choices in what to buy. Good marketing will catch their interest and convert it to sales.
makeitdouble 1y ago
> pricing strategy, distribution, understanding your sales channels and building relationships with your key customers for example Pricing can definitely be marketing and is crucial to the company. The rest sounds more like operations and customer relations to me. Otherwise I agree bullshitting can be interesting and analytical, when looking at a full campaign promoting a life style or solely aimed at imprinting the brand, it's full on the fuzzy side but it is all extremely thought out, and grounded in relatively solid research when it comes to the bigger players.
- StopDisinfo910 1y ago
  > The rest sounds more like operations and customer relations to me. Marketing is not advertisement. It definitely has a significant overlap with operations. I mean it’s in the name really: it’s about how you go to the market. Every time someone wonders if they would make more by going for a subscription or a lump sum payment and how they should structure their pricing tiers and what should be put in them, they are unknowingly doing marketing.

Henchman21 1y ago

Marketing is lying. Convincing someone to buy something they don’t actually need? Thats a drain on society. It’s become so pervasive we go to great lengths to justify it. But at its core its fundamentally dishonest.

paulcole 1y ago
“1000 songs in your pocket.” Was that a lie when Apple said it about the iPod?
- alansammarone 1y ago
  no,thats true and honest marketing. If the iPod stopped working after a year (low quality), or was easily hackable (low effort) - and they didn't include that in the marketing - then it would be lying (Windows).
itsoktocry 1y ago
Classic zero accountability take. Why are you getting suckered into buying something you don't need because a commercials says so?
- Henchman21 1y ago
  Because a megacorporation hires psychologists (in the form of marketers) to gin up scenarios where class mobility is implied as a subtext in the acquisition of their goods? I mean, who doesn't want to have the fun/get the girls/get the money because they bought {insert product here}? How is one to defend one's self against the constant onslaught of bullshit meant to part fools with their money? How is an individual supposed to have any defenses against that? When they're raised in an endless din of lying noise? Yours is the classic _abusers take_. "If only you were a better person you could stand up for yourself"
  - bfg_9k 1y ago
    People still have agency. It's like when you were a kid and your mother asked you - "would you jump off a cliff too?"
    - piperswe 1y ago
      You'd be surprised how many people could be convinced to jump off the cliff, if billions of dollars were spent on manipulating them into jumping.
- boccko 1y ago
  What? What does it mean for a comment on the internet to be non-zero accountability?
  - Henchman21 1y ago
    I took it to mean my take an implied lack of agency when evaluating advertisements in one's life and if one should act on it. My take would be that one does indeed lack the agency to be able to evaluate ads that way. The environment itself makes it impossible. SNR is way too low to find valid signals to evaluate. The number being purely honest and informative with zero spin must be close to zero.
- tacitusarc 1y ago
  Because you are a generally honest and trusting person and so you believe them when they lie to you.
cootsnuck 1y ago
So what are the people with worthwhile products and services supposed to do then? Just not engage in marketing? Sincere question.
- Henchman21 1y ago
  Yes, that's my take. I'm of the opinion we should outlaw advertising. If your product is good, word will spread via word-of-mouth. But then, I don't exist to do business. Acquiring profit isn't my goal. Acquiring status, rank, or advantage over my fellows isn't my goal. Its the goal of those we let run roughshod over the rest of us justified by phrases like "well its just human nature to be greedy; nothing to be done!" or "If I don't do it someone else will!" This is how low we've sunk: lying is so normalized that we can't envison a world without it.
  - pjmlp 1y ago
    Lets say you're a freelancer, why is a company supposed to hire you then. You are the product, how do you suggest to sell yourself? Companies aren't going to waste time looking into Github, if that is your take.
  - tmcdos 1y ago
    The book SELLING THE WHEEL by Jeff Cox and Howard Stevens is quite good in explaining the lifecycle of every product (not sure about services). Must-read for every product owner/seller/developer.
  - cootsnuck 1y ago
    I mean I don't disagree. One of my favorite quotes I've been saying for years is "Advertising shits in your brain." But at the same time I think only relying on word of mouth is a bit biased against people who aren't starting with an advantage of a pre-existing network for whatever worthwhile service they could be offering. That being said, plenty of successful service based freelancers will tell you most of their business is from referrals at a certain point. It's just hard to get to that point. (I say this as someone who only gets business from referrals right now, but wants that to not be the case.) Yea idk, I totally agree with you in spirit. But I care about practicality and I have found worthwhile services from solo-freelancers via marketing. Good marketing doesn't have to equal garbage. But I feel ya. Most marketing is mind numbing.
dbmikus 1y ago
You can market products that people need. A big part of this is explaining and educating someone about what your product does, another part is just getting the word out there. Every website homepage is more-or-less a marketing page. If no one is marketing a product, then nobody knows about it.
SoftTalker 1y ago
It can be this, but there are a lot of things that people actually do need, and they have choices in what to buy. Good marketing will catch their interest and convert it to sales.

makeitdouble 1y ago

> pricing strategy, distribution, understanding your sales channels and building relationships with your key customers for example Pricing can definitely be marketing and is crucial to the company. The rest sounds more like operations and customer relations to me. Otherwise I agree bullshitting can be interesting and analytical, when looking at a full campaign promoting a life style or solely aimed at imprinting the brand, it's full on the fuzzy side but it is all extremely thought out, and grounded in relatively solid research when it comes to the bigger players.

StopDisinfo910 1y ago
> The rest sounds more like operations and customer relations to me. Marketing is not advertisement. It definitely has a significant overlap with operations. I mean it’s in the name really: it’s about how you go to the market. Every time someone wonders if they would make more by going for a subscription or a lump sum payment and how they should structure their pricing tiers and what should be put in them, they are unknowingly doing marketing.