5 ms·

Impressed with what Node is doing the last years, deno and bun has really made Node focus and improve. It was stuck for a while

by sisve 1y ago

mattlondon 1y ago
What are the recent improvements in node itself? Last actually note-worthy improvement I heard of was properly supporting import/export (although do you still need to use the .mjs hack?), but I've been out of the loop here for sometime so would be nice to know what they've added since.
- the_mitsuhiko 1y ago
  using, memory64, undici, async local storage, ESM import improvements, type stripping, local storage / session storage, env file support, built in file watching. Those are just the ones I mainly remember. There is a lot more.
  - franky47 1y ago
    Adding to the list: permissions, CLI styling/colouring, require(esm), globs, test runner.
- 9dev 1y ago
  Small but lovely addition for me is the ability to load .env files natively. There’s more like this; small, focused, real-world-improving features.
  - Kriptonian 1y ago
    [dead]
- pavlov 1y ago
  Here’s a nice overview: https://kashw1n.com/blog/nodejs-2025/ https://kashw1n.com/blog/nodejs-2025/ It doesn’t cover everything, but as an old-school Node user I found several interesting features I didn’t know about.
  - koolba 1y ago
    That is a nice article. It does a great job summing thing up with real examples too.
- moi2388 1y ago
  Do you mean.. node-worthy?
- Tade0 1y ago
  > (although do you still need to use the .mjs hack?) Syntax detection is enabled by default in v22.7.0, v20.19.0: https://nodejs.org/api/packages.html#syntax-detection https://nodejs.org/api/packages.html#syntax-detection Sounds like the obvious correct solution, making .cjs and .mjs obsolete - unless of course someone uses import() statements exclusively, in which case I need to ask: why?
  - madeofpalk 1y ago
    And for a few earlier versions `type: module` in package.json was all that was needed for .js files to be treated as ESM.
  - hiimshort 1y ago
    It is surprising for me to see these features finally being added to Node after such a long time. Especially so when I remember reading discussion after discussion about how something like this wasn't possible. I touched on this in a blog post some time ago [1]. Glad Node is catching up. [1] https://kilo.bytesize.xyz/an-incorrect-specification https://kilo.bytesize.xyz/an-incorrect-specification
    - Tade0 1y ago
      I don't see in your blogpost any sources cited regarding anyone saying that ES modules were infeasible. Additionally, io.js actually forked off due to internal drama which started with Ben Noordhuis having changed some pronouns here and there and people wanting to cancel him for that, to which he picked up his toys and left the sandbox. It so happened that aside from being competent himself, he had competent people on his side, which eventually forced those governing Node.js to concede. Bun is just a cash grab in comparison.
pjmlp 1y ago
Have them though? On the projects I am involved, they could even not exist, only node LTS releases matter, and the most recent projects are still node 20.
- Sammi 1y ago
  22 is LTS. The future is now.
  - norman784 1y ago
    All even versions are LTS btw, maybe what you mean is that version 22 entered in maintenance mode (hence stable) and new features will not be added.
  - pjmlp 1y ago
    Sure, who is going to budget project upgrade effort of ensuring all dependencies work equally as well? There is a reason why so many Java, Python, .NET/C#, C, C++,.. projects are stuck several versions behind.
    - tengbretson 1y ago
      No one said developing software wasn't going to be work.
      - pjmlp 1y ago
        Work isn't free beer in most places.
- cheschire 1y ago
  As a quick aside, “them” is an object pronoun, not a subject pronoun. The correct word you needed is “they”. You couldn’t phrase your original question as a statement “Them have though.” That’s often a quick test for valid English grammar. With the correct pronoun, it makes more sense: “They have though.” As another example, take this sentence: “Have you seen them though?” “You” is the subject of that sentence, and “them” is the object.
pier25 1y ago
They added type striping, not full TS support. And the biggest issue with Node IMO is that the standard lib still forces you to rely on endless npm dependencies. Node is still very much stuck.
- nailer 1y ago
  > the standard lib still forces you to rely on endless npm dependencies How? We have async/await file access, a async/await test runner, and even async/await sleep built in. What are you missing?
  - pier25 1y ago
    > What are you missing? Everything else needed to make a backend app. At the very least, Node should provide fundamental pieces like database drivers. Currently the best PG driver[1] depends on a single guy. Bun already provides its own PG driver [2] and Jarred has written they will keep investing into more built-in APIs. [1] https://github.com/porsager/postgres https://github.com/porsager/postgres [2] https://bun.com/docs/api/sql https://bun.com/docs/api/sql
    - nailer 1y ago
      > Currently the best PG driver[1] depends on a single guy. Definitely a problem, but funding good Postgres/MongoDB/SQLite should be handled by AWS, Microsoft, Google, and other orgs that sell database services.
      - anarazel 1y ago
        >> Currently the best PG driver[1] depends on a single guy. > Definitely a problem, but funding good Postgres/MongoDB/SQLite should be handled by AWS, Microsoft, Google, and other orgs that sell database services. A good chunk of PG development is done by employees of those companies (*). Of course they could (and probably should) always do more. But even if they invest more, it's not obvious that the marginal effort is best invested in some language's drivers... Disclaimer: I'm paid by one of those big companies.

Impressed with what Node is doing the last years, deno and bun has really made Node focus and improve. It was stuck for a while

by sisve 1y ago

Impressed with what Node is doing the last years, deno and bun has really made Node focus and improve. It was stuck for a while

mattlondon 1y ago

What are the recent improvements in node itself? Last actually note-worthy improvement I heard of was properly supporting import/export (although do you still need to use the .mjs hack?), but I've been out of the loop here for sometime so would be nice to know what they've added since.

the_mitsuhiko 1y ago
using, memory64, undici, async local storage, ESM import improvements, type stripping, local storage / session storage, env file support, built in file watching. Those are just the ones I mainly remember. There is a lot more.
- franky47 1y ago
  Adding to the list: permissions, CLI styling/colouring, require(esm), globs, test runner.
9dev 1y ago
Small but lovely addition for me is the ability to load .env files natively. There’s more like this; small, focused, real-world-improving features.
- Kriptonian 1y ago
  [dead]
pavlov 1y ago
Here’s a nice overview: https://kashw1n.com/blog/nodejs-2025/ https://kashw1n.com/blog/nodejs-2025/ It doesn’t cover everything, but as an old-school Node user I found several interesting features I didn’t know about.
- koolba 1y ago
  That is a nice article. It does a great job summing thing up with real examples too.
moi2388 1y ago
Do you mean.. node-worthy?
Tade0 1y ago
> (although do you still need to use the .mjs hack?) Syntax detection is enabled by default in v22.7.0, v20.19.0: https://nodejs.org/api/packages.html#syntax-detection https://nodejs.org/api/packages.html#syntax-detection Sounds like the obvious correct solution, making .cjs and .mjs obsolete - unless of course someone uses import() statements exclusively, in which case I need to ask: why?
- madeofpalk 1y ago
  And for a few earlier versions `type: module` in package.json was all that was needed for .js files to be treated as ESM.
- hiimshort 1y ago
  It is surprising for me to see these features finally being added to Node after such a long time. Especially so when I remember reading discussion after discussion about how something like this wasn't possible. I touched on this in a blog post some time ago [1]. Glad Node is catching up. [1] https://kilo.bytesize.xyz/an-incorrect-specification https://kilo.bytesize.xyz/an-incorrect-specification
  - Tade0 1y ago
    I don't see in your blogpost any sources cited regarding anyone saying that ES modules were infeasible. Additionally, io.js actually forked off due to internal drama which started with Ben Noordhuis having changed some pronouns here and there and people wanting to cancel him for that, to which he picked up his toys and left the sandbox. It so happened that aside from being competent himself, he had competent people on his side, which eventually forced those governing Node.js to concede. Bun is just a cash grab in comparison.

pjmlp 1y ago

Have them though? On the projects I am involved, they could even not exist, only node LTS releases matter, and the most recent projects are still node 20.

Sammi 1y ago
22 is LTS. The future is now.
- norman784 1y ago
  All even versions are LTS btw, maybe what you mean is that version 22 entered in maintenance mode (hence stable) and new features will not be added.
- pjmlp 1y ago
  Sure, who is going to budget project upgrade effort of ensuring all dependencies work equally as well? There is a reason why so many Java, Python, .NET/C#, C, C++,.. projects are stuck several versions behind.
  - tengbretson 1y ago
    No one said developing software wasn't going to be work.
    - pjmlp 1y ago
      Work isn't free beer in most places.
cheschire 1y ago
As a quick aside, “them” is an object pronoun, not a subject pronoun. The correct word you needed is “they”. You couldn’t phrase your original question as a statement “Them have though.” That’s often a quick test for valid English grammar. With the correct pronoun, it makes more sense: “They have though.” As another example, take this sentence: “Have you seen them though?” “You” is the subject of that sentence, and “them” is the object.

pier25 1y ago

They added type striping, not full TS support. And the biggest issue with Node IMO is that the standard lib still forces you to rely on endless npm dependencies. Node is still very much stuck.

nailer 1y ago
> the standard lib still forces you to rely on endless npm dependencies How? We have async/await file access, a async/await test runner, and even async/await sleep built in. What are you missing?
- pier25 1y ago
  > What are you missing? Everything else needed to make a backend app. At the very least, Node should provide fundamental pieces like database drivers. Currently the best PG driver[1] depends on a single guy. Bun already provides its own PG driver [2] and Jarred has written they will keep investing into more built-in APIs. [1] https://github.com/porsager/postgres https://github.com/porsager/postgres [2] https://bun.com/docs/api/sql https://bun.com/docs/api/sql
  - nailer 1y ago
    > Currently the best PG driver[1] depends on a single guy. Definitely a problem, but funding good Postgres/MongoDB/SQLite should be handled by AWS, Microsoft, Google, and other orgs that sell database services.
    - anarazel 1y ago
      >> Currently the best PG driver[1] depends on a single guy. > Definitely a problem, but funding good Postgres/MongoDB/SQLite should be handled by AWS, Microsoft, Google, and other orgs that sell database services. A good chunk of PG development is done by employees of those companies (*). Of course they could (and probably should) always do more. But even if they invest more, it's not obvious that the marginal effort is best invested in some language's drivers... Disclaimer: I'm paid by one of those big companies.