3 ms·

Hate speech is wrong think. Threats are something different

em-bee 1y ago
hate speech is no clearly defined, so maybe we need to talk about that. wikipedia translates the german term "Volksverhetzung" to "incitement to hatred", but that's not actually a good translation, because it rather means "incitement to hatred against a whole people". besides that here is strong language directed against individuals that is designed to hurt them. in germany that is defined as insult to your honor or dignity and incitement to violence. the devil is in the details of course, and there are many expressions that are borderline and depend on context. but i think we can agree that such speech is generally not wanted. whether it should be punished is another question, but in my opinion "wrong think" goes way beyond what i described here. one topic that does go beyond hate speech that may be problematic is expressions that threatens the democracy. i couldn't find any good examples for that yet other than democracy being threatened by radicalization, polarization and political violence. so presumably anything that leads to that, most of which is already covered by hate speech.
- moi2388 1y ago
  I don’t agree with that. Inciting violence is wrong. Lying is wrong. But pointing out crime figures of for example the imported migrant Muslims is true, yet also hate speech? I think we’re far beyond hate speech being thought crime. It also means you can’t be honest about your reasons or viewpoint, thereby poisoning the public debate.
  - em-bee 1y ago
    i can't comment on specific examples without knowing more details about the context and what actually happened. the problem in such cases is often that crime figures are cited in isolation without comparing them to local crime figures as if there was no local crime or ignoring the fact that a lot of "crime" by immigrants is violations against immigration law. something a local can't possibly violate. i understand the same thing is happening in the US. so yes, if you twist statistics to deliberately make immigrants look worse than they are, then that is hate speech. if that is not what you are talking about then we will have to look at he actual numbers being pointed out and the message they come with and the response to that.
    - moi2388 1y ago
      The problem is that already some countries, including Germany, are not reporting on the background of criminals anymore because it could lead to hate speech.

hate speech is no clearly defined, so maybe we need to talk about that. wikipedia translates the german term "Volksverhetzung" to "incitement to hatred", but that's not actually a good translation, because it rather means "incitement to hatred against a whole people". besides that here is strong language directed against individuals that is designed to hurt them. in germany that is defined as insult to your honor or dignity and incitement to violence. the devil is in the details of course, and there are many expressions that are borderline and depend on context. but i think we can agree that such speech is generally not wanted. whether it should be punished is another question, but in my opinion "wrong think" goes way beyond what i described here. one topic that does go beyond hate speech that may be problematic is expressions that threatens the democracy. i couldn't find any good examples for that yet other than democracy being threatened by radicalization, polarization and political violence. so presumably anything that leads to that, most of which is already covered by hate speech.

moi2388 1y ago
I don’t agree with that. Inciting violence is wrong. Lying is wrong. But pointing out crime figures of for example the imported migrant Muslims is true, yet also hate speech? I think we’re far beyond hate speech being thought crime. It also means you can’t be honest about your reasons or viewpoint, thereby poisoning the public debate.
- em-bee 1y ago
  i can't comment on specific examples without knowing more details about the context and what actually happened. the problem in such cases is often that crime figures are cited in isolation without comparing them to local crime figures as if there was no local crime or ignoring the fact that a lot of "crime" by immigrants is violations against immigration law. something a local can't possibly violate. i understand the same thing is happening in the US. so yes, if you twist statistics to deliberately make immigrants look worse than they are, then that is hate speech. if that is not what you are talking about then we will have to look at he actual numbers being pointed out and the message they come with and the response to that.
  - moi2388 1y ago
    The problem is that already some countries, including Germany, are not reporting on the background of criminals anymore because it could lead to hate speech.