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> The comments on this page are a complete cesspool. I noticed this. I'm quite appalled. Definitely outside the usual HN standards. I suspect the very idea of

by jraph 1y ago

> The comments on this page are a complete cesspool. I noticed this. I'm quite appalled. Definitely outside the usual HN standards. I suspect the very idea of self-hosting one's code instead of using GitHub is triggrering many people beyond reasonable levels for reasons I'd love to get an explanation for. Are people projecting their GitHub FOMO? Are people thinking that the value of the GitHub they cherish decreases with each project not picking it because of the weaker network effect?

hulitu 1y ago
> I suspect the very idea of self-hosting one's code instead of using GitHub is triggrering many people beyond reasonable levels for reasons I'd love to get an explanation for. The cloud companies do not want you to selfhost. It is good that Ffmpeg did not experience a DDOS attack yet, because that's what happened to someone who moved his email to selfhosting. We are living in a time when companies have become like mafia.
- jraph 1y ago
  Do you have evidences that these individual HN accounts are from some cloud company mafia? I don't think this is it and I would not want to dismiss individual spontaneous, genuine feeling too early.
eviks 1y ago
> beyond reasonable levels for reasons I'd love to get an explanation for. Since you're ignoring the reasons by calling them unreasonable, the armchair psychology alternative won't help get you what you love
- jraph 1y ago
  I'm not calling people or reasons unreasonable, but the level at which they are triggered. And I stand by my point: being mad that someone chooses to self host is unreasonable and no amount of accusing me of doing armchair psychology will change anything to this.
  - Aurornis 1y ago
    There’s an irony to becoming so triggered by a couple angry comments that you become triggered and leave your own angry comments.
    - jraph 1y ago
      Oh no, we are trapped in a angry comments infinite loop! :-) Yeah, I wouldn't say it triggered me but we should definitely have flagged the angry comment and moved on, as per the HN guidelines. I was negatively surprised, I'm not usually surprised by comments on HN. In the end, all these comments were flagged and downvoted to death anyway.
LegionMammal978 1y ago
I do have a sense of unease about most smaller hosting services and self-hosting solutions, in that I don't trust them to stay up in the long term, once no one is left to care about projects on them, or at least not about the old versions. (This isn't so big an issue for something as big as FFmpeg, but I'm talking about the general case.) Just try to download some old version of a minor library from the late 90s or early 2000s: unless it's been continuously using the same source control repo, the odds are better than not that the files disappeared during the intervening decades. In contrast, whatever its faults, I fully expect public repos on GitHub to last for the next 10 years, likely the next 20, barring active removal by the author. (The biggest medium-term risk is a "GitHub is evil, take down all your repos" campaign a la Reddit.) Of course, it's not foolproof, the only way to get that would be to replicate the project in dozens of places, but I find it much better than the old status quo of files slipping away once forgotten.
- jraph 1y ago
  That's a totally valid concern that I also have and that does need to be addressed. I'm thinking of setting up mirrors for my stuff for this exact reason. Now that codeberg exists, that could be the solution and why not accept contributions from codeberg too if it doesn't make the development process too messy. OTOH GitHub is a huge SPOF. I also trust that my stuff that matters is checked out by other people who will reupload somewhere else should something happen.
- omnimus 1y ago
  I think it is OK that repos and content in general disappear. It is healthy. If somebody is caring about hosting the thing it most likely means it is healthy project. If not you shouldn't probably be using it. This obsession with saving everything forever leads to information overload. In 20 years the github namespaces will be so full that finding good name for a project will be impossible. People often bring up social media but i think that's even worse. If you like some of photos just keep and save them yourself. I don't think it's healthy to be randomly reminded (what facebook does) about what somebody was doing 8 years ago on this day. People are unable to forget and forgive. We should allow for this to happen automatically like our memories.

by jraph 1y ago

hulitu 1y ago

> I suspect the very idea of self-hosting one's code instead of using GitHub is triggrering many people beyond reasonable levels for reasons I'd love to get an explanation for. The cloud companies do not want you to selfhost. It is good that Ffmpeg did not experience a DDOS attack yet, because that's what happened to someone who moved his email to selfhosting. We are living in a time when companies have become like mafia.

jraph 1y ago
Do you have evidences that these individual HN accounts are from some cloud company mafia? I don't think this is it and I would not want to dismiss individual spontaneous, genuine feeling too early.

eviks 1y ago

> beyond reasonable levels for reasons I'd love to get an explanation for. Since you're ignoring the reasons by calling them unreasonable, the armchair psychology alternative won't help get you what you love

jraph 1y ago
I'm not calling people or reasons unreasonable, but the level at which they are triggered. And I stand by my point: being mad that someone chooses to self host is unreasonable and no amount of accusing me of doing armchair psychology will change anything to this.
- Aurornis 1y ago
  There’s an irony to becoming so triggered by a couple angry comments that you become triggered and leave your own angry comments.
  - jraph 1y ago
    Oh no, we are trapped in a angry comments infinite loop! :-) Yeah, I wouldn't say it triggered me but we should definitely have flagged the angry comment and moved on, as per the HN guidelines. I was negatively surprised, I'm not usually surprised by comments on HN. In the end, all these comments were flagged and downvoted to death anyway.

LegionMammal978 1y ago

I do have a sense of unease about most smaller hosting services and self-hosting solutions, in that I don't trust them to stay up in the long term, once no one is left to care about projects on them, or at least not about the old versions. (This isn't so big an issue for something as big as FFmpeg, but I'm talking about the general case.) Just try to download some old version of a minor library from the late 90s or early 2000s: unless it's been continuously using the same source control repo, the odds are better than not that the files disappeared during the intervening decades. In contrast, whatever its faults, I fully expect public repos on GitHub to last for the next 10 years, likely the next 20, barring active removal by the author. (The biggest medium-term risk is a "GitHub is evil, take down all your repos" campaign a la Reddit.) Of course, it's not foolproof, the only way to get that would be to replicate the project in dozens of places, but I find it much better than the old status quo of files slipping away once forgotten.

jraph 1y ago
That's a totally valid concern that I also have and that does need to be addressed. I'm thinking of setting up mirrors for my stuff for this exact reason. Now that codeberg exists, that could be the solution and why not accept contributions from codeberg too if it doesn't make the development process too messy. OTOH GitHub is a huge SPOF. I also trust that my stuff that matters is checked out by other people who will reupload somewhere else should something happen.
omnimus 1y ago
I think it is OK that repos and content in general disappear. It is healthy. If somebody is caring about hosting the thing it most likely means it is healthy project. If not you shouldn't probably be using it. This obsession with saving everything forever leads to information overload. In 20 years the github namespaces will be so full that finding good name for a project will be impossible. People often bring up social media but i think that's even worse. If you like some of photos just keep and save them yourself. I don't think it's healthy to be randomly reminded (what facebook does) about what somebody was doing 8 years ago on this day. People are unable to forget and forgive. We should allow for this to happen automatically like our memories.