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The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago. The second best time is today. Let people become allies and reconcile with why they took so long another tim

The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago. The second best time is today. Let people become allies and reconcile with why they took so long another time.

dkuntz2 1y ago
the author has shown himself not to be an ally in this piece.
Arainach 1y ago
I've given blanket forgiveness for anyone in my life who voted for Trump in 2016, but anyone who voted for him a second time after watching his hate-driven anti-competence regime the first time around is written off in my book. At that point we're back to "I didn't care until it hurt me personally" - a viewpoint Republicans take on so many issues (see also the Republicans who said "I guess not ALL homosexuals are evil" only after a close family member came out). These people haven't changed and they'll still be off supporting hate and awful causes until they're directly burned, so it's not worth wasting time or energy on them and I'm certainly not obligated to forgive them.
- kcplate 1y ago
  Unfortunately this assumes a reasonable alternative existed. A lot people felt that one didn’t which is one of the reasons why every time Trump ran he received more votes than the time before. I didn’t vote for Trump, ever. However, I couldn’t vote against him these last three presidential runs either.
  - shazbotter 1y ago
    I voted third party. But ultimately a presidential vote is worth very little compared to actually putting in the work in one's community. Too many people think if they vote once every four years they've done their civic duty and can return to branch or whatever.
    - IAmBroom 1y ago
      To vote third-party in our system is to implicitly vote for the winner... while you think yourself clever for your invisible, meaningless statement.
      - shazbotter 1y ago
        If I voted for Biden nothing fundamentally changes in 2024. My state already went hard for Biden. No, I did not support the winner. But I agree, a vote for President is an invisible meaningless statement. At least we can agree there.
      - kcplate 1y ago
        Seems to me that it’s not all that “clever” to reinforce the decision to provide an awful candidate from one of the two “winnable” political parties hoping that people will still hold their nose and vote for the lesser of two evils…whichever subjective one that is to you. Lots of people were asking “where did all our 2020 votes go in 2024?” It’s not so “invisible” when your folks wake up to your stupid shenanigans en masse and walk away.
- shazbotter 1y ago
  I largely agree it's fine to cut those people out of your life. But I go to things like food not bombs and if someone shows up a decade from now and confides they voted for Trump but they've since learned why that was bad, and they are actually putting in the work to undo the damage it caused, maybe I am willing to give them a chance. Ultimately a vote matters very little. What other actions a person takes matter far far more. If they have other things to atone for, they probably have more work to do than a few votes.
  - Arainach 1y ago
    >Ultimately a vote matters very little It matters an incredible amount, as we're seeing. There's an enormous difference between candidates and the number of votes deciding that was small compared to the pool of though eligible voters.
    - shazbotter 1y ago
      It really does not matter. Biden didn't meaningfully solve anything (and if anything, he made Trump's ascendency easier). Harris would not have solved things either. She'd continue to empower corporations and the wealthy, just like Biden, Trump, Obama, Bush, and Clinton. You know what does help people? Community building. Feeding people. Organizing workplaces. Forest conservation. Building housing. Forming tenant unions. Organizing anti-ICE demonstrations. Etc. Actions solve problems commensurate with the time and effort it takes to perform. Voting takes very little effort, and solves very few problems. Community organizing takes a lot of effort and solves lots of problems. Vote for whomever you want, I'm not going to demonize someone for voting for Harris. But like, that should be the smallest contribution you make by at least two or three orders of magnitude.
      - Arainach 1y ago
        This is malicious nonsense. Anyone who claims there is no difference between the parties at this point is trolling or sufficiently ignorant as to be indistinguishable from a troll. The Biden Administration got inflation under control, strengthened international relationships and trade, forgave student loan debt, invested in domestic microchip manufacture, prosecuted antitrust, enforced civil rights legislation, added environmental protections, and so much more. Just because things can't be solved in 4 years when faced with the Senate filibuster and a compromised Supreme Court does not mean that it made no difference. It made an enormous difference, as we have seen from the quick and sharp contrast. You know what helps people? Not have the federal government trying to criminalize their existence. Having access to clean water and safely inspected food. Predictable economics and pricing instead of tariffs that change day to day.
eviks 1y ago
That's a different issue, I was answering the question the author raised himself, but to your point - "another time" never comes

The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago. The second best time is today. Let people become allies and reconcile with why they took so long another time.

dkuntz2 1y ago

the author has shown himself not to be an ally in this piece.

Arainach 1y ago

I've given blanket forgiveness for anyone in my life who voted for Trump in 2016, but anyone who voted for him a second time after watching his hate-driven anti-competence regime the first time around is written off in my book. At that point we're back to "I didn't care until it hurt me personally" - a viewpoint Republicans take on so many issues (see also the Republicans who said "I guess not ALL homosexuals are evil" only after a close family member came out). These people haven't changed and they'll still be off supporting hate and awful causes until they're directly burned, so it's not worth wasting time or energy on them and I'm certainly not obligated to forgive them.

kcplate 1y ago
Unfortunately this assumes a reasonable alternative existed. A lot people felt that one didn’t which is one of the reasons why every time Trump ran he received more votes than the time before. I didn’t vote for Trump, ever. However, I couldn’t vote against him these last three presidential runs either.
- shazbotter 1y ago
  I voted third party. But ultimately a presidential vote is worth very little compared to actually putting in the work in one's community. Too many people think if they vote once every four years they've done their civic duty and can return to branch or whatever.
  - IAmBroom 1y ago
    To vote third-party in our system is to implicitly vote for the winner... while you think yourself clever for your invisible, meaningless statement.
    - shazbotter 1y ago
      If I voted for Biden nothing fundamentally changes in 2024. My state already went hard for Biden. No, I did not support the winner. But I agree, a vote for President is an invisible meaningless statement. At least we can agree there.
    - kcplate 1y ago
      Seems to me that it’s not all that “clever” to reinforce the decision to provide an awful candidate from one of the two “winnable” political parties hoping that people will still hold their nose and vote for the lesser of two evils…whichever subjective one that is to you. Lots of people were asking “where did all our 2020 votes go in 2024?” It’s not so “invisible” when your folks wake up to your stupid shenanigans en masse and walk away.
shazbotter 1y ago
I largely agree it's fine to cut those people out of your life. But I go to things like food not bombs and if someone shows up a decade from now and confides they voted for Trump but they've since learned why that was bad, and they are actually putting in the work to undo the damage it caused, maybe I am willing to give them a chance. Ultimately a vote matters very little. What other actions a person takes matter far far more. If they have other things to atone for, they probably have more work to do than a few votes.
- Arainach 1y ago
  >Ultimately a vote matters very little It matters an incredible amount, as we're seeing. There's an enormous difference between candidates and the number of votes deciding that was small compared to the pool of though eligible voters.
  - shazbotter 1y ago
    It really does not matter. Biden didn't meaningfully solve anything (and if anything, he made Trump's ascendency easier). Harris would not have solved things either. She'd continue to empower corporations and the wealthy, just like Biden, Trump, Obama, Bush, and Clinton. You know what does help people? Community building. Feeding people. Organizing workplaces. Forest conservation. Building housing. Forming tenant unions. Organizing anti-ICE demonstrations. Etc. Actions solve problems commensurate with the time and effort it takes to perform. Voting takes very little effort, and solves very few problems. Community organizing takes a lot of effort and solves lots of problems. Vote for whomever you want, I'm not going to demonize someone for voting for Harris. But like, that should be the smallest contribution you make by at least two or three orders of magnitude.
    - Arainach 1y ago
      This is malicious nonsense. Anyone who claims there is no difference between the parties at this point is trolling or sufficiently ignorant as to be indistinguishable from a troll. The Biden Administration got inflation under control, strengthened international relationships and trade, forgave student loan debt, invested in domestic microchip manufacture, prosecuted antitrust, enforced civil rights legislation, added environmental protections, and so much more. Just because things can't be solved in 4 years when faced with the Senate filibuster and a compromised Supreme Court does not mean that it made no difference. It made an enormous difference, as we have seen from the quick and sharp contrast. You know what helps people? Not have the federal government trying to criminalize their existence. Having access to clean water and safely inspected food. Predictable economics and pricing instead of tariffs that change day to day.

eviks 1y ago

That's a different issue, I was answering the question the author raised himself, but to your point - "another time" never comes