4 ms·

"Hatred against a group of people" has been stretched to the breaking point in recent years.

by wmf 1y ago

em-bee 1y ago
in germany? examples please.
- wmf 1y ago
  After a minute of searching... https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/23/technology/germany-internet-speech-arrest.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/23/technology/germany-intern... I admit that these cases are arguable but by the same token the police don't have to respond to every mistake with a dawn raid. Even the US Secret Service has more discretion than this.
  - em-bee 1y ago
    i agree with the overuse of raids, but i didn't see anything mentioned that didn't warrant at least some investigation.
    - bentley 1y ago
      Not even the multiple cases of an individual doing nothing but call a politician a dick on social media? > Last year, Andy Grote, a city senator responsible for public safety and the police in Hamburg, broke the local social distancing rules — which he was in charge of enforcing — by hosting a small election party in a downtown bar. > After Mr. Grote later made remarks admonishing others for hosting parties during the pandemic, a Twitter user wrote: “Du bist so 1 Pimmel” (“You are such a penis”). > Three months later, six police officers raided the house of the man who had posted the insult, looking for his electronic devices. The incident caused an uproar. ... > In response to a message by [politician] Mr. Jurca criticizing Muslims, Mr. Mai posted a link to a picture of the mural [saying “Du bist so 1 Pimmel”]. > Several weeks later, four police officers pounded on Mr. Mai’s door at 6 a.m. with a warrant to confiscate his electronics. Mr. Jurca had filed a police report claiming the link to the photo was an insult.
      - em-bee 1y ago
        call a politician a dick on social media in germany that is covered under insult against the honor and dignity of an individual. i don't know about this case, but this is generally only prosecuted when the insulted asks for it, and in most cases is a civil matter. that the incident caused an uproar shows that the response this case is an example of overreach, but overreach happens everywhere, and is an issue in itself. he question here is, is the risk for overreach more dangerous than removing the law/protection. this is certainly debatable.
        deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
- achierius 1y ago
  The continual harassment of socialist parties by the government, including declarations that any group following Marxist philosophy is necessarily acting towards an unconstitutional goal.
  - em-bee 1y ago
    because they are calling for a revolution, not reforms. revolution is an unconstitutional goal. if they believe that marxist philosophy can be achieved without a revolution they better ought to make that very clear. and to my knowledge the treatment of communists in the US was way worse.
    - burnerthrow008 1y ago
      Yes, well, calling for a revolution is protected speech in the United States. It is only if your words are likely to promptly cause someone to commit violence that you can be prosecuted for it.
      - em-bee 1y ago
        there is a difference between individuals calling for a revolution and organized groups that have that in their program as a goal. the latter is not a theoretical threat but one that has historical precedent.
- ekianjo 1y ago
  in France for example https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20230329-french-woman-faces-trial-for-insulting-macron-on-facebook https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20230329-french-woman-...
- closewith 1y ago
  Right now, in the suppression of protest against the genocide in Palestine.
  - em-bee 1y ago
    i found two articles that write about this: https://www.nd-aktuell.de/artikel/1191189.index-der-repression-systematische-unterdrueckung-von-palaestina-solidaritaet.html https://www.nd-aktuell.de/artikel/1191189.index-der-repressi... https://www.sueddeutsche.de/politik/berlin-demonstrationen-gazastreifen-palaestina-polizeigewalt-li.3273957 https://www.sueddeutsche.de/politik/berlin-demonstrationen-g... the first is a left wing publication, but the second is quite conservative. i have to admit that what they describe is much worse than i imagined. :-( you are right it certainly looks a lot like suppression of legitimate protests and support of palestine being deliberately misinterpreted as antisemitism.
    - closewith 1y ago
      Fair play to you for doing your research and making this comment.
      - em-bee 1y ago
        i am not discussing here to win arguments, but to learn and educate (myself included).
  - bboygravity 1y ago
    What are you talking about? I see those (clearly very well funded) protests calling for literal unambiguous genocide of the Israeli people "from the river to the sea" almost weekly in every major train station and city center in the EU (and also China which means CCP gov backs the message)?! Open jew hate in Europe hasn't been this elevated since WWII.
    - closewith 1y ago
      > Open jew hate in Europe hasn't been this elevated since WWII. Opposition to genocide or to Israel is not anti-Semitism.

"Hatred against a group of people" has been stretched to the breaking point in recent years.

by wmf 1y ago

"Hatred against a group of people" has been stretched to the breaking point in recent years.

em-bee 1y ago

in germany? examples please.

wmf 1y ago
After a minute of searching... https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/23/technology/germany-internet-speech-arrest.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/23/technology/germany-intern... I admit that these cases are arguable but by the same token the police don't have to respond to every mistake with a dawn raid. Even the US Secret Service has more discretion than this.
- em-bee 1y ago
  i agree with the overuse of raids, but i didn't see anything mentioned that didn't warrant at least some investigation.
  - bentley 1y ago
    Not even the multiple cases of an individual doing nothing but call a politician a dick on social media? > Last year, Andy Grote, a city senator responsible for public safety and the police in Hamburg, broke the local social distancing rules — which he was in charge of enforcing — by hosting a small election party in a downtown bar. > After Mr. Grote later made remarks admonishing others for hosting parties during the pandemic, a Twitter user wrote: “Du bist so 1 Pimmel” (“You are such a penis”). > Three months later, six police officers raided the house of the man who had posted the insult, looking for his electronic devices. The incident caused an uproar. ... > In response to a message by [politician] Mr. Jurca criticizing Muslims, Mr. Mai posted a link to a picture of the mural [saying “Du bist so 1 Pimmel”]. > Several weeks later, four police officers pounded on Mr. Mai’s door at 6 a.m. with a warrant to confiscate his electronics. Mr. Jurca had filed a police report claiming the link to the photo was an insult.
    - em-bee 1y ago
      call a politician a dick on social media in germany that is covered under insult against the honor and dignity of an individual. i don't know about this case, but this is generally only prosecuted when the insulted asks for it, and in most cases is a civil matter. that the incident caused an uproar shows that the response this case is an example of overreach, but overreach happens everywhere, and is an issue in itself. he question here is, is the risk for overreach more dangerous than removing the law/protection. this is certainly debatable.
      - deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
achierius 1y ago
The continual harassment of socialist parties by the government, including declarations that any group following Marxist philosophy is necessarily acting towards an unconstitutional goal.
- em-bee 1y ago
  because they are calling for a revolution, not reforms. revolution is an unconstitutional goal. if they believe that marxist philosophy can be achieved without a revolution they better ought to make that very clear. and to my knowledge the treatment of communists in the US was way worse.
  - burnerthrow008 1y ago
    Yes, well, calling for a revolution is protected speech in the United States. It is only if your words are likely to promptly cause someone to commit violence that you can be prosecuted for it.
    - em-bee 1y ago
      there is a difference between individuals calling for a revolution and organized groups that have that in their program as a goal. the latter is not a theoretical threat but one that has historical precedent.
ekianjo 1y ago
in France for example https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20230329-french-woman-faces-trial-for-insulting-macron-on-facebook https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20230329-french-woman-...
closewith 1y ago
Right now, in the suppression of protest against the genocide in Palestine.
- em-bee 1y ago
  i found two articles that write about this: https://www.nd-aktuell.de/artikel/1191189.index-der-repression-systematische-unterdrueckung-von-palaestina-solidaritaet.html https://www.nd-aktuell.de/artikel/1191189.index-der-repressi... https://www.sueddeutsche.de/politik/berlin-demonstrationen-gazastreifen-palaestina-polizeigewalt-li.3273957 https://www.sueddeutsche.de/politik/berlin-demonstrationen-g... the first is a left wing publication, but the second is quite conservative. i have to admit that what they describe is much worse than i imagined. :-( you are right it certainly looks a lot like suppression of legitimate protests and support of palestine being deliberately misinterpreted as antisemitism.
  - closewith 1y ago
    Fair play to you for doing your research and making this comment.
    - em-bee 1y ago
      i am not discussing here to win arguments, but to learn and educate (myself included).
- bboygravity 1y ago
  What are you talking about? I see those (clearly very well funded) protests calling for literal unambiguous genocide of the Israeli people "from the river to the sea" almost weekly in every major train station and city center in the EU (and also China which means CCP gov backs the message)?! Open jew hate in Europe hasn't been this elevated since WWII.
  - closewith 1y ago
    > Open jew hate in Europe hasn't been this elevated since WWII. Opposition to genocide or to Israel is not anti-Semitism.