4 ms·

Louis makes it sound that its actually for protecting the children but we all know its just an excuse for surveillance, control, and ultimately jailing people f

Louis makes it sound that its actually for protecting the children but we all know its just an excuse for surveillance, control, and ultimately jailing people for wrong opinions (a real threat in the EU since there is no protection of Freedom of Speech anywhere)

stefantalpalaru 1y ago
[dead]
Maken 1y ago
The European Convention of Human Rights explicitly protects freedom of expression.
- account42 1y ago
  If it doesn't protect someone denying the holocaust then it won't protect any other expression that the government in power doesn't like.
- pqtyw 1y ago
  The first amendment in the US did too but it took more than a 100 years for the current interpretation to become the consensus in the legal system.
- wmf 1y ago
  Yeah but look how many exceptions there are: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_10_of_the_European_Convention_on_Human_Rights https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_10_of_the_European_Con...
- ekianjo 1y ago
  nope. part 2 of the article 10 basically nullifes the freedom of speech for any bs reason given by the government. that counts for nothing.
  - FranzFerdiNaN 1y ago
    [flagged]
  - layer8 1y ago
    The judiciary deciding about reasons is independent from the governments.
    - ekianjo 1y ago
      national security is not up to the judiciary > The exercise of these freedoms, since it carries with it duties and responsibilities, may be subject to such formalities, conditions, restrictions or penalties as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society, in the interests of national security, territorial integrity or public safety, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, for the protection of the reputation or rights of others, for preventing the disclosure of information received in confidence, or for maintaining the authority and impartiality of the judiciary.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- dkiebd 1y ago
  October, 2018: "In Europe, Speech Is an Alienable Right: [the European Court of Human Rights] upheld an Austrian woman’s conviction for disparaging the Prophet Muhammad." >On Thursday, the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) upheld her 2011 conviction for “disparagement of religious precepts,” a crime in Austria. The facts of what E.S. did are not in dispute. She held “seminars” in which she presented her view that Muhammad was indeed a child molester. Dominant Islamic traditions hold that Muhammad’s third wife, Aisha, was 6 at the time of their marriage and 9 at its consummation. Muhammad was in his early 50s. The Austrian woman repeated these claims, and the Austrian court ruled that she had to pay 480 euros or spend 60 days in the slammer. The ECHR ruled that Austria had not violated her rights. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/its-not-free-speech-criticize-muhammad-echr-ruled/574174/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/its-not-fr...
em-bee 1y ago
jailing people for wrong opinions (a real threat in the EU since there is no protection of Freedom of Speech anywhere) how do you figure that? the freedom of opinion is explicitly enshrined in the german constitution for example. there are limitations, but these are very specific and not arbitrary. gemany is in fact one of the countries the provides the most protection for your opinion world wide, as long as that opinion is not based on obvious falsehoods (like holocaust denial), or stirs up hatred against a group of people. you can however criticize others and at this point germany provides even more protection than the US.
- pqtyw 1y ago
  > you can however criticize others and at this point germany provides even more protection than the US. Would what last few episodes of South Park be legal if they were made by Germans and targeted German politicians? Probably not?
- wmf 1y ago
  "Hatred against a group of people" has been stretched to the breaking point in recent years.
  - em-bee 1y ago
    in germany? examples please.
    - wmf 1y ago
      After a minute of searching... https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/23/technology/germany-internet-speech-arrest.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/23/technology/germany-intern... I admit that these cases are arguable but by the same token the police don't have to respond to every mistake with a dawn raid. Even the US Secret Service has more discretion than this.
      - em-bee 1y ago
        i agree with the overuse of raids, but i didn't see anything mentioned that didn't warrant at least some investigation.

stefantalpalaru 1y ago

[dead]

Maken 1y ago

The European Convention of Human Rights explicitly protects freedom of expression.

account42 1y ago
If it doesn't protect someone denying the holocaust then it won't protect any other expression that the government in power doesn't like.
pqtyw 1y ago
The first amendment in the US did too but it took more than a 100 years for the current interpretation to become the consensus in the legal system.
wmf 1y ago
Yeah but look how many exceptions there are: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_10_of_the_European_Convention_on_Human_Rights https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_10_of_the_European_Con...
ekianjo 1y ago
nope. part 2 of the article 10 basically nullifes the freedom of speech for any bs reason given by the government. that counts for nothing.
- FranzFerdiNaN 1y ago
  [flagged]
- layer8 1y ago
  The judiciary deciding about reasons is independent from the governments.
  - ekianjo 1y ago
    national security is not up to the judiciary > The exercise of these freedoms, since it carries with it duties and responsibilities, may be subject to such formalities, conditions, restrictions or penalties as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society, in the interests of national security, territorial integrity or public safety, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, for the protection of the reputation or rights of others, for preventing the disclosure of information received in confidence, or for maintaining the authority and impartiality of the judiciary.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
dkiebd 1y ago
October, 2018: "In Europe, Speech Is an Alienable Right: [the European Court of Human Rights] upheld an Austrian woman’s conviction for disparaging the Prophet Muhammad." >On Thursday, the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) upheld her 2011 conviction for “disparagement of religious precepts,” a crime in Austria. The facts of what E.S. did are not in dispute. She held “seminars” in which she presented her view that Muhammad was indeed a child molester. Dominant Islamic traditions hold that Muhammad’s third wife, Aisha, was 6 at the time of their marriage and 9 at its consummation. Muhammad was in his early 50s. The Austrian woman repeated these claims, and the Austrian court ruled that she had to pay 480 euros or spend 60 days in the slammer. The ECHR ruled that Austria had not violated her rights. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/its-not-free-speech-criticize-muhammad-echr-ruled/574174/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/its-not-fr...

em-bee 1y ago

jailing people for wrong opinions (a real threat in the EU since there is no protection of Freedom of Speech anywhere) how do you figure that? the freedom of opinion is explicitly enshrined in the german constitution for example. there are limitations, but these are very specific and not arbitrary. gemany is in fact one of the countries the provides the most protection for your opinion world wide, as long as that opinion is not based on obvious falsehoods (like holocaust denial), or stirs up hatred against a group of people. you can however criticize others and at this point germany provides even more protection than the US.

pqtyw 1y ago
> you can however criticize others and at this point germany provides even more protection than the US. Would what last few episodes of South Park be legal if they were made by Germans and targeted German politicians? Probably not?
wmf 1y ago
"Hatred against a group of people" has been stretched to the breaking point in recent years.
- em-bee 1y ago
  in germany? examples please.
  - wmf 1y ago
    After a minute of searching... https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/23/technology/germany-internet-speech-arrest.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/23/technology/germany-intern... I admit that these cases are arguable but by the same token the police don't have to respond to every mistake with a dawn raid. Even the US Secret Service has more discretion than this.
    - em-bee 1y ago
      i agree with the overuse of raids, but i didn't see anything mentioned that didn't warrant at least some investigation.