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I've heard similar anecdotes. I am of the opinion that AI can't fix that. That will require school boards and parents willing to change budget allocation to s
by Bender 1y ago
I've heard similar anecdotes. I am of the opinion that AI can't fix that. That will require school boards and parents willing to change budget allocation to school police and local governments that implement zero tolerance on [instigating] violence. Parents of violent kids will of course get upset and emit crocodile tears because their "little darling" would "never hurt anyone". Cameras in classrooms, body cams on teachers, school police and lock up the little darlings will take a bite out of it. Short of that and we just lose more good teachers. Kids can earn back camera free classrooms once the violent ones are weeded out.
I would put the AI in juvenile hall to teach the violent kids. It will be a dystopian environment but they earned it and can earn their way out of it.
[Edit] - I learned today that school districts have been lazy and using "zero tolerance" to even include defending ones self vs instigation of violence. This is indefensible. I will be encouraging POTUS to end all pax payer funded education and federal funding to states if schools and states can not get their act together and change verbiage to be zero tolerance for instigators of violence.
- xyzzy123 1y ago> It will be a dystopian environment but they earned it and can earn their way out of it. It's not very clear cut but sometimes it seems like kids just end up being punished for having bad parents.
- diggan 1y ago> it seems like kids just end up being punished for having bad parents Yeah, hard to make the right call, depends on the age and maturity of the kid I guess. I myself is a product of "bad parents", and it was reflected in my own behavior up until I was 15-16 years old, when I started realizing what I was doing really had an impact on my fellow humans, so at one point I started consciously working on myself to not be like that anymore. So a 6 year old will most definitely just be a product of how the parents act, but once you get older you need to also take responsibility for how you yourself are as a person. What exact age that is seems to differ by country.
- Marazan 1y agoThis is the crux of the matter and any "solution" offered that ignores that young children are primarily the product of their parenting is no solution at all
- Bender 1y agoWell, this gets dark really fast but the scientific solution is to sterilize the kids and their parents to end a bad blood line. Obviously that will never be legal to do. It won't solve doctors prescribing off-label anti-psychotic drugs, people eating garbage and excessive drinking of fermented crap which leads to compulsive behavior.
- SnuffBox 1y ago> I would put the AI in juvenile hall to teach the violent kids. It will be a dystopian environment but they earned it and can earn their way out of it. I feel that this would only further embitter the violent children and would cause more problems than it would theoretically solve.
- bombcar 1y agoYou can’t require mandatory attendance AND have zero-X policies. It’s impossible. Something has to give.
- Bender 1y agoThe attendance of the violent kids will have to give.
- dsego 1y agoNot everybody even deserves school. Unfortunately, society benefits from everyone having at least some education, so making school non compulsory could have more detrimental effects with overall poorer education in the populace. With that said, I'm all for removing disruptive kids from classrooms, but they would need a more controlled environment, which is hardly feasible.
- bombcar 1y agoWe used to have them, but most have been removed or are no longer considered acceptable options - various boarding schools for “troubled” children or military school.
- logicchains 1y agoI'd wager if anyone actually studied the effect of mandatory attendance on that bottom percentile of persistently violent, disruptive students, they'd find almost no improvement in their outcomes. Yet their presence has a demonstrable negative effect on other students and teachers alike. The right approach would be to base attendance policies on science, not wishful ideology.
- bombcar 1y agoAs usual when the realities are ignored for fairy-tale dream stories. The rich and powerful don’t care to try to fix it because they have their kids in private schools anyway, and the upper middle class can move to areas the worst poor can’t afford. So only the working poor have to suffer. But at least they’re told it is a righteous suffering.
- TimorousBestie 1y ago> Cameras in classrooms, body cams on teachers, school police and lock up the little darlings will take a bite out of it. This has been the status quo in many schools for a while now. Whether or not it helped is unclear and a subject of ongoing debate. If you want things to change, you need a novel intervention. As for zero tolerance policies, they are exhausting to implement and feel deeply unjust to everyone involved. Having to suspend or expel a student for defending themselves never feels good. But if one doesn’t, the policy is no longer zero tolerance.
- Bender 1y agoHaving to suspend or expel a student for defending themselves never feels good. If they are expelled for defending themselves the policies need to change. The cameras should provide evidence they were defending themselves. When enough violent kids are removed the incidence of having to defend one's self should be reduced with time.
- TimorousBestie 1y agoIf you don’t like this outcome, you should not support zero tolerance policies. Zero tolerance denotes a policy where the root causes do not affect the consequences. There’s no zero tolerance policy where “providing evidence” is an effective defense.
- Bender 1y agoThis is a retcon of the original meaning of zero tolerance. Zero tolerance means the instigators are removed from the picture without question. If it is documented or implemented otherwise then we will have to fix it and schools will have to stop being lazy.
- RHSeeger 1y agoThat's the point though; zero-tolerance means that the cause doesn't matter. Defending yourself means you participated in violence and you're punished for it. Zero-tolerance is a horrible idea in general, and only sense in the context of protecting the institution from liability.
- astura 1y ago>I would put the AI in juvenile hall to teach the violent kids. It will be a dystopian environment but they earned it and can earn their way out of it. Children didn't "earn" being born to shit heads. Fuck off.
- Bender 1y agoChildren didn't "earn" being born to shit heads. Fuck off. No thanks. If it can be proven the parents are negligent or responsible there are processes in place for this too. Whether or not a state or provincial government has the wherewithal to invoke the process is another question.
- BeFlatXIII 1y agoThey must've done bad shit in a prior life.
- trinix912 1y agoYou don’t need any creepy surveillance tech, just teachers with the proper rights to punish those who violate the rules. As long as teachers can’t say or do anything without parents rushing to the school and threatening with lawsuits, nothing will change, no matter how much surveillance tech we throw at the problem.
- CafeRacer 1y agoYep, a proper whack, in my opinion, will solve many problems. Also it should legally be allowed to whack a parent, as long as it is justified.
- Bender 1y agoThat is what school police or local police and sheriff are for. They are taught when whacking or more is appropriate and their job requires they accept the risk. Teachers should not be required to accept this risk even if they are physically capable.
- thfuran 1y agoCops in the U.S. don’t accept risk; they shoot whatever makes them nervous.
- CafeRacer 1y agoYeah, I remember these videos when there is a school shooter and cops are just chilling outside. I'd be not against the idea of teacher-whaking feature. Also, if there is a kid who bullies my kid, I'd not be against the idea to whack a parent of that kid, if nothing else works. Obviously everything should be at the reasonable level. I am heavily against the idea that certain powers should be centralized into a single entity.
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- thfuran 1y ago>zero tolerance on violence Why do you think kids should be punished for getting bullied?
- Bender 1y agoEdited to say instigating violence.