3 ms·

To be honest, I prefer this to what other car makers do. Example: Ford. In many cases they ship 1 engine type and restrict it by software. This way they reduc

by mk89 1y ago

To be honest, I prefer this to what other car makers do. Example: Ford. In many cases they ship 1 engine type and restrict it by software. This way they reduce manufacturing costs, I understand, it's just unfair that you have the same engine of someone with officially more horsepower and all you can do is cheat (with software that enables the feature) and hence say goodbye to your insurance.

whartung 1y ago
I have one of these, but it’s not a Ford. It’s a BMW motorcycle. At the time, the F-series came in the F-750 and F-850 models. The motors are identical, the computers restrict the top end horsepower. But, those aren’t the only differences. The 850 is more designed for off road than the 750. The bike is taller, large front wheel, spoked wheels. I’m have the 750, the more street oriented version. But here’s the thing. As they say in motorsports, there’s no replacement for displacement. My peak HP may be down to the 850, but I get all of the torque, which is one aspect that makes a motorcycle better to ride. Torque really helps with acceleration, and my bike will get to ludicrous speed quite handily. Also in some jurisdictions, riders are limited by HP as to what bikes they’re allowed to ride due to tiered licensing. The 750 falls under one of those lines. So I can’t speak to Ford, but I think the way BMW uses this in the F-series is quite reasonable on several levels.
- mk89 1y ago
  This is a very specific case, to be honest, and I am happy you can enjoy your motorbike like the model with more HPs, etc. The thing is - for mass production, it has become cheaper for a manufacturer to produce 1 engine type and block it with software rather then 2,3...N types and to allow people to choose. The subscription model in my opinion makes sense, because you can also decide to unlock the feature entirely and it stays. If not, you can try and decide. It sounds reasonable to me - they didn't sell you 4 wheels and a steering wheel with "entry level" model that can be upgraded to "all in the entry model + car seats, radio" etc. We're talking about some very specific upgrades that make the car cost less by default and yet still good. Who the hell needs 230HPs on a daily basis? So shrink that, make the entry model more reasonable, and let them upgrade if they want to.
- i_am_proteus 1y ago
  Same thing on the current F-800 and F-900: identical engine blocks, different power outputs, F-900 comes with taller suspension, spoked wheels, and so forth. I believe part of the rationale is that Euro A2 licenses permit a "restrictor kit" to reduce motor power below 47 hp, but only if maximum horsepower is less than 94 hp (double the limit). One can buy an F-800 with a restrictor, and then remove the restrictor once one has obtained the upgraded license. Now, looking at the motor torque and power curves, most of that extra power comes in the high RPMs. In practical riding of BMW twins, I find that I rarely place the motor into the high RPMs, because the torque curve is nice and flat and there's plenty of pull in the low range :)
- jalgos_eminator 1y ago
  How does the computer restrict power? Is it just a lower rev limiter?
  - jmalicki 1y ago
    Often times it is ECU engine timings. See the many ECU tune kits available for many cars. More aggressive tunings can also be harder on the engine. Factory tunes work a bit like binning and overclocking - the higher clocked CPUs are often selected for better quality control, and lower clocked CPUs are the same part, but with less rigorous quality control (or at least they don't have to pass at the same extreme high level). So just like you can overclock a CPU, you can often overclock an engine... but if there are mild defects in the engine block the results can be disastrous. This also affects fuel economy, which is regulated, and also affects consumer buying decisions. So optimizing the ECU tune for performance and for fuel economy are often somewhat different optimization points. For instance, BMWs have a button for "Eco/Comfort/Sport" mode, which among other things, can sometimes change the engine timings from a button in the cabin. Just like underclocking a GPU can get 80% of the performance for a fraction of the power, and overclocking by 10% can use 20% more power, the same is true of the ECU timings.

by mk89 1y ago

whartung 1y ago

I have one of these, but it’s not a Ford. It’s a BMW motorcycle. At the time, the F-series came in the F-750 and F-850 models. The motors are identical, the computers restrict the top end horsepower. But, those aren’t the only differences. The 850 is more designed for off road than the 750. The bike is taller, large front wheel, spoked wheels. I’m have the 750, the more street oriented version. But here’s the thing. As they say in motorsports, there’s no replacement for displacement. My peak HP may be down to the 850, but I get all of the torque, which is one aspect that makes a motorcycle better to ride. Torque really helps with acceleration, and my bike will get to ludicrous speed quite handily. Also in some jurisdictions, riders are limited by HP as to what bikes they’re allowed to ride due to tiered licensing. The 750 falls under one of those lines. So I can’t speak to Ford, but I think the way BMW uses this in the F-series is quite reasonable on several levels.

mk89 1y ago
This is a very specific case, to be honest, and I am happy you can enjoy your motorbike like the model with more HPs, etc. The thing is - for mass production, it has become cheaper for a manufacturer to produce 1 engine type and block it with software rather then 2,3...N types and to allow people to choose. The subscription model in my opinion makes sense, because you can also decide to unlock the feature entirely and it stays. If not, you can try and decide. It sounds reasonable to me - they didn't sell you 4 wheels and a steering wheel with "entry level" model that can be upgraded to "all in the entry model + car seats, radio" etc. We're talking about some very specific upgrades that make the car cost less by default and yet still good. Who the hell needs 230HPs on a daily basis? So shrink that, make the entry model more reasonable, and let them upgrade if they want to.
i_am_proteus 1y ago
Same thing on the current F-800 and F-900: identical engine blocks, different power outputs, F-900 comes with taller suspension, spoked wheels, and so forth. I believe part of the rationale is that Euro A2 licenses permit a "restrictor kit" to reduce motor power below 47 hp, but only if maximum horsepower is less than 94 hp (double the limit). One can buy an F-800 with a restrictor, and then remove the restrictor once one has obtained the upgraded license. Now, looking at the motor torque and power curves, most of that extra power comes in the high RPMs. In practical riding of BMW twins, I find that I rarely place the motor into the high RPMs, because the torque curve is nice and flat and there's plenty of pull in the low range :)
jalgos_eminator 1y ago
How does the computer restrict power? Is it just a lower rev limiter?
- jmalicki 1y ago
  Often times it is ECU engine timings. See the many ECU tune kits available for many cars. More aggressive tunings can also be harder on the engine. Factory tunes work a bit like binning and overclocking - the higher clocked CPUs are often selected for better quality control, and lower clocked CPUs are the same part, but with less rigorous quality control (or at least they don't have to pass at the same extreme high level). So just like you can overclock a CPU, you can often overclock an engine... but if there are mild defects in the engine block the results can be disastrous. This also affects fuel economy, which is regulated, and also affects consumer buying decisions. So optimizing the ECU tune for performance and for fuel economy are often somewhat different optimization points. For instance, BMWs have a button for "Eco/Comfort/Sport" mode, which among other things, can sometimes change the engine timings from a button in the cabin. Just like underclocking a GPU can get 80% of the performance for a fraction of the power, and overclocking by 10% can use 20% more power, the same is true of the ECU timings.