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> Sudo nominally being for special/power use cases, but being required for many things Just the fact that installing user software still requires sudo in most

by troupo 1y ago

> Sudo nominally being for special/power use cases, but being required for many things Just the fact that installing user software still requires sudo in most distributions is very irritating to me. Hence the rise of `curl <something> | bash` I think

zahlman 1y ago
> Just the fact that installing user software still requires sudo in most distributions The permissions are required because you will put the files in places that can be seen by all users of the system. It's not different from UAC on Windows getting in the way of installing "for all users".
- troupo 1y ago
  > The permissions are required because you will put the files in places that can be seen by all users of the system. Why does software installed by a user puts stuff where it will be seen by all users? > It's not different from UAC on Windows getting in the way of installing "for all users". When I'm not installing "for all users" UAC isn't there, right? Edit For the purposes of installing software Linux is a single-user OS masquerading as multi-user.
  - zahlman 1y ago
    > Why does software installed by a user puts stuff where it will be seen by all users? Because the software package has its install paths predetermined. But other distribution methods absolutely are available. Flatpak works much more like what you're accustomed to; you can supply --user at the command line. Of course, this also means you get the bloat you're accustomed to; it still tries to share dependencies, but it's much harder in that world. Also, because it is a good thing to think twice before installing any software. > When I'm not installing "for all users" UAC isn't there, right? Yes, and you can correspondingly put an Appimage in ~/.local/bin (or anywhere, if you don't care about having it on your PATH) without sudo, or run flatpak install --user without sudo. > For the purposes of installing software Linux is a single-user OS masquerading as multi-user. I am the only actual person who uses my system, but I made 7 user accounts (so far) and use at least 2 of them regularly. To say nothing of all the non-privileged users the system creates automatically, specifically so that certain background processes can run without violating privacy or corrupting anything important if they go haywire.
    - troupo 1y ago
      > Because the software package has its install paths predetermined That really doesn't explain why this still is the case for the vast majority of distributions in 2025. Or why these "predetermined paths" could not be transparently provided to the package and actually lead wherever. > Flatpak works much more like what you're accustomed to It's not "what I'm accustomed to". It's how it's supposed to work. I, the user, am installing some software for me, myself, the user. I am not installing it for all users of the system. And that is the primary case for installing almost anything, especially in a user-facing system. And yet... > I am the only actual person who uses my system, but I made 7 user accounts (so far) and use at least 2 of them regularly. To say nothing of all the non-privileged users the system creates automatically And... this somehow makes any of my points invalid? > specifically so that certain background processes can run without violating privacy or corrupting anything important if they go haywire. What does this have to do with a user installing software? Literally nothing. Besides implying that Linux is a single-user system masquerading as multi-user. Where the simple act of installing user software for a user can apparently break the entire system because it's always installed for all users. If Windows of all systems could figure it out...
soraminazuki 1y ago
Why are you writing angry screeds pretending that Linux always requires elevated privileges to install software while Windows doesn't? Windows requires elevated privileges to install software in C:\Program Files\. Typical Linux distros require elevated privileges to install software in /usr. Both Linux and Windows don't require additional privileges to install software in the home directory. There is no fundamental difference between the two, and you're talking nonsense.

by troupo 1y ago

zahlman 1y ago

> Just the fact that installing user software still requires sudo in most distributions The permissions are required because you will put the files in places that can be seen by all users of the system. It's not different from UAC on Windows getting in the way of installing "for all users".

troupo 1y ago
> The permissions are required because you will put the files in places that can be seen by all users of the system. Why does software installed by a user puts stuff where it will be seen by all users? > It's not different from UAC on Windows getting in the way of installing "for all users". When I'm not installing "for all users" UAC isn't there, right? Edit For the purposes of installing software Linux is a single-user OS masquerading as multi-user.
- zahlman 1y ago
  > Why does software installed by a user puts stuff where it will be seen by all users? Because the software package has its install paths predetermined. But other distribution methods absolutely are available. Flatpak works much more like what you're accustomed to; you can supply --user at the command line. Of course, this also means you get the bloat you're accustomed to; it still tries to share dependencies, but it's much harder in that world. Also, because it is a good thing to think twice before installing any software. > When I'm not installing "for all users" UAC isn't there, right? Yes, and you can correspondingly put an Appimage in ~/.local/bin (or anywhere, if you don't care about having it on your PATH) without sudo, or run flatpak install --user without sudo. > For the purposes of installing software Linux is a single-user OS masquerading as multi-user. I am the only actual person who uses my system, but I made 7 user accounts (so far) and use at least 2 of them regularly. To say nothing of all the non-privileged users the system creates automatically, specifically so that certain background processes can run without violating privacy or corrupting anything important if they go haywire.
  - troupo 1y ago
    > Because the software package has its install paths predetermined That really doesn't explain why this still is the case for the vast majority of distributions in 2025. Or why these "predetermined paths" could not be transparently provided to the package and actually lead wherever. > Flatpak works much more like what you're accustomed to It's not "what I'm accustomed to". It's how it's supposed to work. I, the user, am installing some software for me, myself, the user. I am not installing it for all users of the system. And that is the primary case for installing almost anything, especially in a user-facing system. And yet... > I am the only actual person who uses my system, but I made 7 user accounts (so far) and use at least 2 of them regularly. To say nothing of all the non-privileged users the system creates automatically And... this somehow makes any of my points invalid? > specifically so that certain background processes can run without violating privacy or corrupting anything important if they go haywire. What does this have to do with a user installing software? Literally nothing. Besides implying that Linux is a single-user system masquerading as multi-user. Where the simple act of installing user software for a user can apparently break the entire system because it's always installed for all users. If Windows of all systems could figure it out...

soraminazuki 1y ago

Why are you writing angry screeds pretending that Linux always requires elevated privileges to install software while Windows doesn't? Windows requires elevated privileges to install software in C:\Program Files\. Typical Linux distros require elevated privileges to install software in /usr. Both Linux and Windows don't require additional privileges to install software in the home directory. There is no fundamental difference between the two, and you're talking nonsense.