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Not sure how exactly politicians will jump from “minimal wages don’t have to be livable wages” and “people who are able to work should absolutely not have acces

Not sure how exactly politicians will jump from “minimal wages don’t have to be livable wages” and “people who are able to work should absolutely not have access to free healthcare” and “any tax-supported benefits are actually undeserved entitlements and should be eliminated” to “everyone deserves a universal basic income”.

ludicrousdispla 1y ago
Politicians are elected for limited terms, not for life, so they don't need to change their opinion for a change to occur.
- polotics 1y ago
  Are you sure of this? Don't you think the next US presidential election and very many subsequent ones will be decided by the US Supreme Court?
mindcrime 1y ago
Not sure how exactly politicians will jump from ... Well, if one believes that the day will come when their choices will be "make that jump" or "the guillotine", then it doesn't seem completely outlandish. Not saying that day will come, but if it did...
- SoftTalker 1y ago
  > or "the guillotine" Or even simply being voted out.
omnimus 1y ago
I wouldn't underestimate what can happen if 1/3 of your workforce is displaced and put aside with nothing to do. People are usually obedient because they have something in life and they are very busy with work. So they don't have time or headspace to really care about politics. When suddenly big numbers of people start to more care about politics it leads to organizing and all kinds of political changes. What i mean is that it wouldn't be current political class pushing things like UBI. At same time it seems that some of current elites are preparing for this and want to get rid of elections altogether to keep the status quo.
- vkou 1y ago
  Getting rid of peaceful processes for transferring power is not going to be the big win that they think it is.
- TheOtherHobbes 1y ago
  I wouldn't underestimate how easily AI will suppress this through a combination of ultrasurveillance, psychological and emotional modelling, and personally targeted persuasion delivered by chatbot etc. If all else fails you can simply bomb city blocks into submission. Or arrange targeted drone decapitations of troublemakers. (Possibly literally.) The automation and personalisation of social and political control - and violence - is the biggest difference this time around. The US has already seen a revolution in the effectiveness of mass state propaganda, and AI has the potential to take that up another level. What's more likely to happen is survivors will move off-grid altogether - away from the big cities, off the Internet, almost certainly disconnected and unable to organise unless communication starts happening on electronic backchannels.
  - nerptastic 1y ago
    Speculating here, but I don't believe that the government would have the time or organization to do this. Widespread political unrest caused by job losses would be the first step. Almost as soon as there is some type of AI that can replace mass amounts of workers, people will be out on the streets - most people don't have 1-2 months of living expenses saved up. At that point, the government would realize that SHTF - but it's too late, people would be protesting / rioting in droves - doesn't matter how many drones you can produce, or whether or not you can psychologically manipulate people when all they want is... food. I could be entirely wrong, but it feels like if AI were to get THAT good, the government would be affected just as much as the working class. We'd more likely see total societal collapse rather than the government maintaining power and manipulating / suppressing the people.
    - anonandwhistle 1y ago
      That is a lot assumption right there. Starving masses can't logically and physically fight with AI or government for long. They become weak after weeks or months? At that point government would be smaller and controlled probably be part of AI owners. IF they dont have 1-2 months of living expenses saved, they die. They can'be a big threat even in millions??? they dont have organization capacity or anything that matches
chr1 1y ago
The money transferred from tax payers to people without money is in effect a price for not breaking the law. If AI makes it much easier to produce goods, it reduces price of money, making it easier to pay some money to everyone in exchange for not breaking the law.
int_19h 1y ago
Same way it happened last time we had a bunch of major advancements in labor rights. Things get shitty everywhere, but at an uneven pace, which combined with random factors causes a spark to set off massive unrest in some countries. Torches and pitchforks are out, many elite heads roll, and the end result is likely to be even worse, but elites in other countries look at all this from the outside and go, "hmm, maybe we shouldn't get people so desperate that they will do that to us".

ludicrousdispla 1y ago

Politicians are elected for limited terms, not for life, so they don't need to change their opinion for a change to occur.

polotics 1y ago
Are you sure of this? Don't you think the next US presidential election and very many subsequent ones will be decided by the US Supreme Court?

mindcrime 1y ago

Not sure how exactly politicians will jump from ... Well, if one believes that the day will come when their choices will be "make that jump" or "the guillotine", then it doesn't seem completely outlandish. Not saying that day will come, but if it did...

SoftTalker 1y ago
> or "the guillotine" Or even simply being voted out.

omnimus 1y ago

I wouldn't underestimate what can happen if 1/3 of your workforce is displaced and put aside with nothing to do. People are usually obedient because they have something in life and they are very busy with work. So they don't have time or headspace to really care about politics. When suddenly big numbers of people start to more care about politics it leads to organizing and all kinds of political changes. What i mean is that it wouldn't be current political class pushing things like UBI. At same time it seems that some of current elites are preparing for this and want to get rid of elections altogether to keep the status quo.

vkou 1y ago
Getting rid of peaceful processes for transferring power is not going to be the big win that they think it is.
TheOtherHobbes 1y ago
I wouldn't underestimate how easily AI will suppress this through a combination of ultrasurveillance, psychological and emotional modelling, and personally targeted persuasion delivered by chatbot etc. If all else fails you can simply bomb city blocks into submission. Or arrange targeted drone decapitations of troublemakers. (Possibly literally.) The automation and personalisation of social and political control - and violence - is the biggest difference this time around. The US has already seen a revolution in the effectiveness of mass state propaganda, and AI has the potential to take that up another level. What's more likely to happen is survivors will move off-grid altogether - away from the big cities, off the Internet, almost certainly disconnected and unable to organise unless communication starts happening on electronic backchannels.
- nerptastic 1y ago
  Speculating here, but I don't believe that the government would have the time or organization to do this. Widespread political unrest caused by job losses would be the first step. Almost as soon as there is some type of AI that can replace mass amounts of workers, people will be out on the streets - most people don't have 1-2 months of living expenses saved up. At that point, the government would realize that SHTF - but it's too late, people would be protesting / rioting in droves - doesn't matter how many drones you can produce, or whether or not you can psychologically manipulate people when all they want is... food. I could be entirely wrong, but it feels like if AI were to get THAT good, the government would be affected just as much as the working class. We'd more likely see total societal collapse rather than the government maintaining power and manipulating / suppressing the people.
  - anonandwhistle 1y ago
    That is a lot assumption right there. Starving masses can't logically and physically fight with AI or government for long. They become weak after weeks or months? At that point government would be smaller and controlled probably be part of AI owners. IF they dont have 1-2 months of living expenses saved, they die. They can'be a big threat even in millions??? they dont have organization capacity or anything that matches

chr1 1y ago

The money transferred from tax payers to people without money is in effect a price for not breaking the law. If AI makes it much easier to produce goods, it reduces price of money, making it easier to pay some money to everyone in exchange for not breaking the law.

int_19h 1y ago

Same way it happened last time we had a bunch of major advancements in labor rights. Things get shitty everywhere, but at an uneven pace, which combined with random factors causes a spark to set off massive unrest in some countries. Torches and pitchforks are out, many elite heads roll, and the end result is likely to be even worse, but elites in other countries look at all this from the outside and go, "hmm, maybe we shouldn't get people so desperate that they will do that to us".