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Thailand wanted the F-35 [0], but the we will not give it to them given how close the Thai government has become to China after the junta [1]. Their junta and

Thailand wanted the F-35 [0], but the we will not give it to them given how close the Thai government has become to China after the junta [1]. Their junta and King wants to keep Thailand as an authoritarian illiberal democracy. The Biden admin on the other hand strongly opposed democratic backsliding in Thailand [2] As a result, they - like Cambodia - decided to flip to China. [0] - https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/thailand-air-force-says-us-has-denied-request-buy-f-35-jets-2023-05-25/ https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/thailand-... [1] - https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/06/17/china-thailand-submarines-military-influence/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/06/17/china-thailand-submarin... [2] - https://asia.nikkei.com/politics/turbulent-thailand/thailand-belittled-again-as-u.s.-ostracizes-it-from-democracy-summit https://asia.nikkei.com/politics/turbulent-thailand/thailand...

Hikikomori 1y ago
I for one welcome our new Chinese overloads.
- alephnerd 1y ago
  It's a side effect of democracy promotion. We the US cannot have a values based foreign policy - all that matters is power. Cambodian and Thai leadership wants to retain power, so they decided to work with the Chinese - who don't care if you are an autocracy or a democracy, while we tried to make an example out of Thailand (and Cambodia) for regressing into authoritarian military governments. We the US need to return to the same mercenary foreign policy. We are starting to do that again with rappoachment to Pakistan, shielding Israel, and arm twisting the Europeans. Welcome to a multipolar world - only the powerful can set the rules.
  - Cyph0n 1y ago
    No, it’s a side effect of US hypocrisy. We apply “standards” - or at least claim to - in some cases but not others. We apply or seek to apply international law in some cases but not others. There was never a true values-based foreign policy. It has always been nothing more than holier than thou posturing.
    - mensetmanusman 1y ago
      Any sufficiently complex system has hypocrisy.
  - Hikikomori 1y ago
    Crazy take if you know anything about Americas meddling in South America and other parts of the world.
  - Barrin92 1y ago
    >arm twisting This is exactly why countries are deciding to reduce their dependence on the US. If you're one president or one policy away from being cut off from technology, tariffed to death or otherwise bullied you're going to choose other partners. Politics is about power, that much is true. But power exercised with restraint. China isn't increasing its influence by arm twisting but the opposite. Simply saying "we're open for business" and not interfering in the domestic politics of other countries as long as that's reciprocated. This is effectively a reversal of the Cold War, which they learned a lesson from. Acting like the Soviet Union isn't going to serve the US well. The more you look like a desperate empire in its late stages losing its grip, replacing mutual benefit with brutality the faster you're done. That ought to be the lesson of the 20th century.
    - jacquesm 1y ago
      You forgot about 'or threatened with invasion'. That's the big one.
axus 1y ago
Interesting that Cambodia is the recent adversary they want the jets for. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2025_Cambodia%E2%80%93Thailand_border_conflict https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2025_Cambodia%E2%80%93Thailand... My brief research says Cambodia was using old Soviet and Chinese stuff, with some UAV support.
- alephnerd 1y ago
  Yep! They are! But in the 2010s we helped Cambodia transition into a democracy, build an independent press (a number of Cambodian journalists used to be HN users back in the day), invest in rural healthcare expansion, and even sponsored Hun Sen's son to study in the US. The Cambodian leadership didn't want any of that. They wanted to continue to rule as an oligarchy, and Western development funds came with oversight requirements and American firms followed the FCPA. On the other hand, Chinese vendors were fine paying bribes to leadership in Cambodia and ignoring rising criminality (it was a win-win for China as well - they were able to "convince" organized crime to leave China). China's elite centric approach [0][1] to foreign relations is better than grassroots democracy promotion that a subset of Americans believed in. If Cambodia or Serbia or Thailand's leadership want to remain a dictatorship or oligarchy, let them. It's not our problem. Our commitment to democracy should be within our borders. Let other countries be dictatorships or democracies as long as they align with our interests. This is what China and Russia does. [0] - https://www.iseas.edu.sg/articles-commentaries/iseas-perspective/2023-101-reviewing-chinas-elite-centric-approach-in-its-relations-with-cambodia-by-chhay-lim/ https://www.iseas.edu.sg/articles-commentaries/iseas-perspec... [1] - https://www.lowyinstitute.org/the-interpreter/lost-translation-china-s-elite-centric-approach-cambodia https://www.lowyinstitute.org/the-interpreter/lost-translati...
  - throwaway7801 1y ago
    Yes, the Chinese are horrible people. Only if these countries could look into Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Vietnam, and on and on, they would realise that the Americans are indeed the trustworthy and reliable partner.
    - 1y ago
MaxPock 1y ago
The real joke is that the US or Biden cared about democracy in Thailand.

Hikikomori 1y ago

I for one welcome our new Chinese overloads.

alephnerd 1y ago
It's a side effect of democracy promotion. We the US cannot have a values based foreign policy - all that matters is power. Cambodian and Thai leadership wants to retain power, so they decided to work with the Chinese - who don't care if you are an autocracy or a democracy, while we tried to make an example out of Thailand (and Cambodia) for regressing into authoritarian military governments. We the US need to return to the same mercenary foreign policy. We are starting to do that again with rappoachment to Pakistan, shielding Israel, and arm twisting the Europeans. Welcome to a multipolar world - only the powerful can set the rules.
- Cyph0n 1y ago
  No, it’s a side effect of US hypocrisy. We apply “standards” - or at least claim to - in some cases but not others. We apply or seek to apply international law in some cases but not others. There was never a true values-based foreign policy. It has always been nothing more than holier than thou posturing.
  - mensetmanusman 1y ago
    Any sufficiently complex system has hypocrisy.
- Hikikomori 1y ago
  Crazy take if you know anything about Americas meddling in South America and other parts of the world.
- Barrin92 1y ago
  >arm twisting This is exactly why countries are deciding to reduce their dependence on the US. If you're one president or one policy away from being cut off from technology, tariffed to death or otherwise bullied you're going to choose other partners. Politics is about power, that much is true. But power exercised with restraint. China isn't increasing its influence by arm twisting but the opposite. Simply saying "we're open for business" and not interfering in the domestic politics of other countries as long as that's reciprocated. This is effectively a reversal of the Cold War, which they learned a lesson from. Acting like the Soviet Union isn't going to serve the US well. The more you look like a desperate empire in its late stages losing its grip, replacing mutual benefit with brutality the faster you're done. That ought to be the lesson of the 20th century.
  - jacquesm 1y ago
    You forgot about 'or threatened with invasion'. That's the big one.

axus 1y ago

Interesting that Cambodia is the recent adversary they want the jets for. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2025_Cambodia%E2%80%93Thailand_border_conflict https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2025_Cambodia%E2%80%93Thailand... My brief research says Cambodia was using old Soviet and Chinese stuff, with some UAV support.

alephnerd 1y ago
Yep! They are! But in the 2010s we helped Cambodia transition into a democracy, build an independent press (a number of Cambodian journalists used to be HN users back in the day), invest in rural healthcare expansion, and even sponsored Hun Sen's son to study in the US. The Cambodian leadership didn't want any of that. They wanted to continue to rule as an oligarchy, and Western development funds came with oversight requirements and American firms followed the FCPA. On the other hand, Chinese vendors were fine paying bribes to leadership in Cambodia and ignoring rising criminality (it was a win-win for China as well - they were able to "convince" organized crime to leave China). China's elite centric approach [0][1] to foreign relations is better than grassroots democracy promotion that a subset of Americans believed in. If Cambodia or Serbia or Thailand's leadership want to remain a dictatorship or oligarchy, let them. It's not our problem. Our commitment to democracy should be within our borders. Let other countries be dictatorships or democracies as long as they align with our interests. This is what China and Russia does. [0] - https://www.iseas.edu.sg/articles-commentaries/iseas-perspective/2023-101-reviewing-chinas-elite-centric-approach-in-its-relations-with-cambodia-by-chhay-lim/ https://www.iseas.edu.sg/articles-commentaries/iseas-perspec... [1] - https://www.lowyinstitute.org/the-interpreter/lost-translation-china-s-elite-centric-approach-cambodia https://www.lowyinstitute.org/the-interpreter/lost-translati...
- throwaway7801 1y ago
  Yes, the Chinese are horrible people. Only if these countries could look into Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Vietnam, and on and on, they would realise that the Americans are indeed the trustworthy and reliable partner.
  - 1y ago

MaxPock 1y ago

The real joke is that the US or Biden cared about democracy in Thailand.