5 ms·

> The Swiss model would be a much more reasonable approach. Shall-issue purchase permit on passing a background check, and the requirement to keep the firearm l

by dmoy 1y ago

> The Swiss model would be a much more reasonable approach. Shall-issue purchase permit on passing a background check, and the requirement to keep the firearm locked up when not used. But if you live alone, your locked front door counts as "locked up." This describes how it works in Seattle, WA.

throwup238 1y ago
Washington is a must-issue concealed carry state though. When working at Microsoft I had to sign something saying I’d keep my gun in my car when on campus.
psunavy03 1y ago
Except Washington has rolled out broad-based bans which statistically do nothing except harass law-abiding citizens. I live in Greater Seattle, and the vibe seems to be much more "ban them all" than "how do we responsibly have these tools in society." The attitude here towards guns is as irrational as the attitude in Mississippi towards people having gay sex. The Swiss will sell you your service rifle converted to semi-auto when you leave the military, yet somehow these "assault weapons" don't cause them problems.
- Orbital_Armada 1y ago
  Gay sex doesn't kill 45000 people a year.
  - NoImmatureAdHom 1y ago
    You know, it probably kills way more than that. HIV transmission is way higher among men who have sex with men.
    - dmoy 1y ago
      US annual HIV deaths are like under 5000 total. It's gotten way, way, way better than earlier decades.
      - NoImmatureAdHom 1y ago
        Thanks for the info. I was imagining the whole world. I look a little above, and maybe it's Washington State really? In any event: 1) Guns don't kill people. They don't even make the people-killing appreciably more likely. 2) Washington has about 1,000 gun murders per year 3) About 2/3 of U.S. gun deaths are suicides, so we might expect about 333 gun murders in WA in a year. I'm really glad U.S. HIV deaths have fallen off a cliff!
        dmoy 1y ago
        The 45k number is for US total (as is the <5k number above) WA state has about 300 murders a year, up significantly from 200-ish pre covid.
  - psunavy03 1y ago
    Neither do so-called "assault weapons." You're statistically more likely to have someone beat you to death with their bare fists and feet. Do you go around worrying about that every day? I don't. Nothing is gained by conflating unrelated topics like suicide, gang violence, domestic violence, and the occasional deranged lunatic spree killer just because they all abused the same tool to commit murder.
    - LorenPechtel 1y ago
      But if you don't muddy the water like that how are you supposed to demonize guns?? Unfortunately, most people are more interested in the simple answer than in recognizing there is no simple answer. And people are remarkably poor at recognizing that those who are muddying the waters are almost certainly arguing a false position.
- burnerthrow008 1y ago
  The Swiss also have compulsory military service for every man over 18 (women may volunteer), so the people owning these guns actually know how to handle them safely and have been trained to have some self-discipline. I expect that the 18 week bootcamp affords an opportunity to closely observe all such conscripts and screen them for mental health disorders and behavioral problems, and that the (minimum) of 7 years of reserve service allows ongoing monitoring. Additionally, common sense tells me that Switzerland's equivalent of "dishonorable" or "other-than-honorable" discharge would result in that person not having the opportunity to buy their service rifle, and possibly putting up roadblocks to owning a gun at all. Therefore the people in Switzerland most likely to cause gun crime do not have ready access to them. That is quite different to how we think about it in the US. If you were to seriously propose such a system in the US, I think you would get far more opposition from the pro-gun groups than the anti-gun groups. In fact, anti-gun groups would welcome adopting the Swiss system, since it so closes matches the legislation they have tried to enact such as magazine size restrictions in California, "red flag" laws in other states, and mandatory trigger locks. All of those laws have been opposed by groups like the NRA.

by dmoy 1y ago

throwup238 1y ago

Washington is a must-issue concealed carry state though. When working at Microsoft I had to sign something saying I’d keep my gun in my car when on campus.

psunavy03 1y ago

Except Washington has rolled out broad-based bans which statistically do nothing except harass law-abiding citizens. I live in Greater Seattle, and the vibe seems to be much more "ban them all" than "how do we responsibly have these tools in society." The attitude here towards guns is as irrational as the attitude in Mississippi towards people having gay sex. The Swiss will sell you your service rifle converted to semi-auto when you leave the military, yet somehow these "assault weapons" don't cause them problems.

Orbital_Armada 1y ago
Gay sex doesn't kill 45000 people a year.
- NoImmatureAdHom 1y ago
  You know, it probably kills way more than that. HIV transmission is way higher among men who have sex with men.
  - dmoy 1y ago
    US annual HIV deaths are like under 5000 total. It's gotten way, way, way better than earlier decades.
    - NoImmatureAdHom 1y ago
      Thanks for the info. I was imagining the whole world. I look a little above, and maybe it's Washington State really? In any event: 1) Guns don't kill people. They don't even make the people-killing appreciably more likely. 2) Washington has about 1,000 gun murders per year 3) About 2/3 of U.S. gun deaths are suicides, so we might expect about 333 gun murders in WA in a year. I'm really glad U.S. HIV deaths have fallen off a cliff!
      - dmoy 1y ago
        The 45k number is for US total (as is the <5k number above) WA state has about 300 murders a year, up significantly from 200-ish pre covid.
- psunavy03 1y ago
  Neither do so-called "assault weapons." You're statistically more likely to have someone beat you to death with their bare fists and feet. Do you go around worrying about that every day? I don't. Nothing is gained by conflating unrelated topics like suicide, gang violence, domestic violence, and the occasional deranged lunatic spree killer just because they all abused the same tool to commit murder.
  - LorenPechtel 1y ago
    But if you don't muddy the water like that how are you supposed to demonize guns?? Unfortunately, most people are more interested in the simple answer than in recognizing there is no simple answer. And people are remarkably poor at recognizing that those who are muddying the waters are almost certainly arguing a false position.
burnerthrow008 1y ago
The Swiss also have compulsory military service for every man over 18 (women may volunteer), so the people owning these guns actually know how to handle them safely and have been trained to have some self-discipline. I expect that the 18 week bootcamp affords an opportunity to closely observe all such conscripts and screen them for mental health disorders and behavioral problems, and that the (minimum) of 7 years of reserve service allows ongoing monitoring. Additionally, common sense tells me that Switzerland's equivalent of "dishonorable" or "other-than-honorable" discharge would result in that person not having the opportunity to buy their service rifle, and possibly putting up roadblocks to owning a gun at all. Therefore the people in Switzerland most likely to cause gun crime do not have ready access to them. That is quite different to how we think about it in the US. If you were to seriously propose such a system in the US, I think you would get far more opposition from the pro-gun groups than the anti-gun groups. In fact, anti-gun groups would welcome adopting the Swiss system, since it so closes matches the legislation they have tried to enact such as magazine size restrictions in California, "red flag" laws in other states, and mandatory trigger locks. All of those laws have been opposed by groups like the NRA.