4 ms·

Sensationalism. I backed Pebble ($255) because they had a solid product and working prototypes. This article (among a number of other "oh noes Kickstarter will

by lusr 14y ago

Sensationalism. I backed Pebble ($255) because they had a solid product and working prototypes. This article (among a number of other "oh noes Kickstarter will take all our monies" scare-articles doing the rounds lately) misses a number of key points: 1. It's a new product and a new team. Delays are a normal part of any ambitious project and don't necessarily mean the product won't ship. 2. For instance, consider that forecasted sales determine forecasted timelines Their original shipping dates are based on raising a projected $100,000. At $99 for the cheapest Pebble, one can imagine that their worst case scenario was to ship roughly 1,000 Pebbles within their original timelines. Their Kickstarter actually raised over $10.25 million and consequently they are supposed to ship 85x more Pebbles than that. It's not hard to understand that such a dramatic difference in actuals vs. forecasts will result in a dramatic change in shipping time frames. 3. More importantly, constant communication from the Pebble team shows they are making steady progress (current backers have until the end of the month to make their colour selections, and in the past month their team took advantage of their 70k backers to perform free market research into desired Pebble colours, which is a wise business decision); I really don't see much to objectively worry about. 4. Backers of the project weren't ordering anything, and are naive if they think they were. Anybody know the Latin for "backer beware"?

citricsquid 14y ago
> 4. Backers of the project weren't ordering anything, and are naive if they think they were. Anybody know the Latin for "backer beware"? Kickstartus misleadum. Kickstarter does not make it clear that the users are "backing" and that it's not guaranteed they will deliver. As you can see from the comments mentioned in the article (and the comments on the Kickstarter "comments" section of the pebble project) it seems a lot of people think they're pre-ordering and not "backing". This is all that Kickstarter includes on the backing page: http://i.imgur.com/WQlBU.png http://i.imgur.com/WQlBU.png
- zevyoura 14y ago
  That text in that image seems pretty clear to me.
- mattmanser 14y ago
  Where in the comments? Am I looking at the right ones? http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/597507018/pebble-e-paper-watch-for-iphone-and-android/comments http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/597507018/pebble-e-paper... I can find some from like 3 weeks ago, mainly one guy 'Graeme' who seems to have changed his name to 'Grrr' while everyone else is saying, 'no, Graeme, they said it was best case'. All the other comments seem upbeat and excited. Also it's not really comments in the article, it's a singular comment and a singular cherry-picked quote from the kickstarter comments, as in two. With no mention of the encouragement comments. The quote is from one guy Joshua Hernandez who seems to have been featured in this author's articles before. Seems it was a slow news day for the author and he picked a story out of his back pocket. I wouldn't call this a balanced piece. And no quote from the company. Also check the recent AMA, is there major outrage there? Is perhaps the shipping date drama the most u/ved question? http://www.reddit.com/r/pebble/comments/y7pki/august_ama_ask_the_pebble_team_anything/ http://www.reddit.com/r/pebble/comments/y7pki/august_ama_ask... No. I'm not a backer or affiliated in any way what so ever. But are lots of people blowing their lid over this as the article suggests? No. Are people upvoting this story out of some sort of weird Schadenfreude. Probably. This story kinda has a smell to it. It's a bit like code smell. One guy quoted over and over. Check. No company quote. Check. No real evidence. Check. Stinky!
- mbreese 14y ago
  How is it misleading? It's called a pledge, not a purchase. From the page: How do I pledge? (It doesn't say: How do I buy?) You pledge because you'd like to see the project exist, not because you need a watch. It just so happens that if you pledged enough, they would also send you a watch. I personally never look at the deadlines for Kickstarter projects - they are at best estimates. I don't know when my Pebble will arrive, but I know that it will eventually. All of this hype is way overblown. We're not talking Duke Nukem Forever here.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- gavinlynch 14y ago
  >> "Kickstarter does not make it clear that the users are "backing" and that it's not guaranteed they will deliver." In this modern world of litigation, they have to say it. But come on, do they really have to say it?? A single ounce of common sense would tell you that this is inherently a risky proposition. I really can't sympathize with backers who did not prepare themselves for the possibility that not all business ventures are successful and deliver on time, regardless of their prior experience.
- nhangen 14y ago
  Pre-ordering and backing are the same thing, else what is the point of rewards and a 100% funds raised threshold?
the-kenny 14y ago
#4 is a BIG issue with Kickstarter and similar platforms. Especially if something get as "big" as Pebble. People read a blog and think "hey cool, I can pre-order it!". They don't even know what they're doing.
petercooper 14y ago
Re 4: In Kickstarter's terms, it says Project Creators are required to fulfill all rewards of their successful fundraising campaigns or refund any Backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill. It would be very hard work to actually enforce this but Kickstarter does at least set the expectation that payment == reward.
- Lerc 14y ago
  They cannot possibly have made that claim in good faith. The most likely scenario for a project that cannot deliver is that they ran out of funds before that had fulfilled all of the orders. By that time there is no money left to refund.
  - dllthomas 14y ago
    Aaand you'd better hope the project formed some kind of entity with limited liability...
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
stjarnljuset 14y ago
> 1. It's a new product and a new team. The same team made the inPulse watch: http://www.getinpulse.com/ http://www.getinpulse.com/
- jre 14y ago
  Ironically, they have a "Preorder on Kickstarter" button on their page. So even the projects are keeping the backer/buyer confusion alive.
pbreit 14y ago
I agree with 1-3 but "Backers of the project weren't ordering anything" is just plain wrong.

by lusr 14y ago

citricsquid 14y ago

> 4. Backers of the project weren't ordering anything, and are naive if they think they were. Anybody know the Latin for "backer beware"? Kickstartus misleadum. Kickstarter does not make it clear that the users are "backing" and that it's not guaranteed they will deliver. As you can see from the comments mentioned in the article (and the comments on the Kickstarter "comments" section of the pebble project) it seems a lot of people think they're pre-ordering and not "backing". This is all that Kickstarter includes on the backing page: http://i.imgur.com/WQlBU.png http://i.imgur.com/WQlBU.png

zevyoura 14y ago
That text in that image seems pretty clear to me.
mattmanser 14y ago
Where in the comments? Am I looking at the right ones? http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/597507018/pebble-e-paper-watch-for-iphone-and-android/comments http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/597507018/pebble-e-paper... I can find some from like 3 weeks ago, mainly one guy 'Graeme' who seems to have changed his name to 'Grrr' while everyone else is saying, 'no, Graeme, they said it was best case'. All the other comments seem upbeat and excited. Also it's not really comments in the article, it's a singular comment and a singular cherry-picked quote from the kickstarter comments, as in two. With no mention of the encouragement comments. The quote is from one guy Joshua Hernandez who seems to have been featured in this author's articles before. Seems it was a slow news day for the author and he picked a story out of his back pocket. I wouldn't call this a balanced piece. And no quote from the company. Also check the recent AMA, is there major outrage there? Is perhaps the shipping date drama the most u/ved question? http://www.reddit.com/r/pebble/comments/y7pki/august_ama_ask_the_pebble_team_anything/ http://www.reddit.com/r/pebble/comments/y7pki/august_ama_ask... No. I'm not a backer or affiliated in any way what so ever. But are lots of people blowing their lid over this as the article suggests? No. Are people upvoting this story out of some sort of weird Schadenfreude. Probably. This story kinda has a smell to it. It's a bit like code smell. One guy quoted over and over. Check. No company quote. Check. No real evidence. Check. Stinky!
mbreese 14y ago
How is it misleading? It's called a pledge, not a purchase. From the page: How do I pledge? (It doesn't say: How do I buy?) You pledge because you'd like to see the project exist, not because you need a watch. It just so happens that if you pledged enough, they would also send you a watch. I personally never look at the deadlines for Kickstarter projects - they are at best estimates. I don't know when my Pebble will arrive, but I know that it will eventually. All of this hype is way overblown. We're not talking Duke Nukem Forever here.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
gavinlynch 14y ago
>> "Kickstarter does not make it clear that the users are "backing" and that it's not guaranteed they will deliver." In this modern world of litigation, they have to say it. But come on, do they really have to say it?? A single ounce of common sense would tell you that this is inherently a risky proposition. I really can't sympathize with backers who did not prepare themselves for the possibility that not all business ventures are successful and deliver on time, regardless of their prior experience.
nhangen 14y ago
Pre-ordering and backing are the same thing, else what is the point of rewards and a 100% funds raised threshold?

the-kenny 14y ago

#4 is a BIG issue with Kickstarter and similar platforms. Especially if something get as "big" as Pebble. People read a blog and think "hey cool, I can pre-order it!". They don't even know what they're doing.

petercooper 14y ago

Re 4: In Kickstarter's terms, it says Project Creators are required to fulfill all rewards of their successful fundraising campaigns or refund any Backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill. It would be very hard work to actually enforce this but Kickstarter does at least set the expectation that payment == reward.

Lerc 14y ago
They cannot possibly have made that claim in good faith. The most likely scenario for a project that cannot deliver is that they ran out of funds before that had fulfilled all of the orders. By that time there is no money left to refund.
- dllthomas 14y ago
  Aaand you'd better hope the project formed some kind of entity with limited liability...

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

stjarnljuset 14y ago

> 1. It's a new product and a new team. The same team made the inPulse watch: http://www.getinpulse.com/ http://www.getinpulse.com/

jre 14y ago
Ironically, they have a "Preorder on Kickstarter" button on their page. So even the projects are keeping the backer/buyer confusion alive.

pbreit 14y ago

I agree with 1-3 but "Backers of the project weren't ordering anything" is just plain wrong.