4 ms·

Are there any plans for significant investments in the US grid(s)? IIRC the entire US doesn't even have a single interconnected grid, with Texas having their ow

by elric 1y ago

Are there any plans for significant investments in the US grid(s)? IIRC the entire US doesn't even have a single interconnected grid, with Texas having their own for some reason. European grids aren't that much better either, loads of investments needed in order to connect more renewables. Some areas already can't handle the load from solar panels/electric vehicles. Everyone seems to know that this is both costly and necessary, but not much seems to be happening. Maybe these things simply take time?

mschuster91 1y ago
> with Texas having their own for some reason. That reason is that Texas wants to avoid federal regulation [1] - regulation that would have prevented the large ass blackout a few years ago in the winter. But hey, 702 deaths [2], a small price to pay for freedom of regulations! > Everyone seems to know that this is both costly and necessary, but not much seems to be happening. Maybe these things simply take time? They take money and political willpower. Both are in short supply - electricity rates here in Europe are already high (and rates in the US very low), so utilities try to avoid pissing off consumers even more, and political willpower for billions of dollars of investment isn't there either as thanks to decades of austerity and trickle-down ideology there is no tax base to pay for it any more. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Interconnection https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Interconnection [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Texas_power_crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Texas_power_crisis
- richwater 1y ago
  > regulation that would have prevented the large ass blackout a few years ago in the winter. They also produce the most renewable power in the country. If you account for externalities prevented by this (fossil fuel induced damage and deaths), who is looking good now? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_renewable_electricity_production https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_renewab...
  - Veliladon 1y ago
    It got so cold that the oil in the wind turbines froze. If Texas was connected to the rest of the country it would be subject to federal regulations that require winterization and even if the wind turbines weren't frozen it would have been able to import power from other places that weren't frozen over.
    - petcat 1y ago
      Frozen wind turbines was a microscopic part of the problem compared to almost half of the fossil fuel natural gas plants being offline due to severe cold and freeze.
      - Veliladon 1y ago
        That too. Coal piles froze. Cooling pumps froze. Water vapor in the natural gas production pipelines froze because it's all fracked. But if they were connected to the East and West interconnections they probably could have rode it out.
      - mschuster91 1y ago
        So... what? Install heating equipment around the pipes. It would have been avoidable, it just would have cost money.
        petcat 1y ago
        So... what, what? All I said was the natural gas plants freezing is what caused the main problem, not wind turbines.
sam_lowry_ 1y ago
Renewables bring the problem of IoT hacks that down the grid, see https://media.ccc.de/v/why2025-90-horus-scenario-2-0 https://media.ccc.de/v/why2025-90-horus-scenario-2-0 And we need capable governments and EU institutions to fix that instead of doing stupid stuff like organizing conferences on quantum computing.
htrp 1y ago
Texas has its own grid so that is not subject to federal regulation. blame ercot
- petcat 1y ago
  Texas also produces the 2nd most renewable energy in the country (wind by far + solar) behind California. That achievement was coordinated by ERCOT. Texas's renewable energy buildout was entirely due to state-level policy and economics, not federal mandates, which have sorely lagged in other states.
  - ckemere 1y ago
    Weren’t there Federal subsidies for wind? There certainly were/are philanthropic support (customers paying extra for “wind energy”). Unclear what role ERCOT played in these two factors. (Though in the current climate they might have tried to block them.)
    - petcat 1y ago
      Utility-scale wind and solar farmers in Texas receive the same federal tax credits for renewable energy production as everyone else in the country does.
    - placardloop 1y ago
      One of Rick Perry’s signature accomplishments as governor of Texas was that he implemented a few policies mandating the expansion of renewable energy, and also a massive initiative called the Competitive Renewable Energy Zone that funded building high voltage transmission lines that connected population centers in North and Central Texas to the open land in West Texas, which is what enabled massive boosts in wind farms being built in west Texas.
boricj 1y ago
> European grids aren't that much better either, loads of investments needed in order to connect more renewables. On one hand, Spain and Portugal recently suffered a complete blackout. On the other hand, instead of cascading the blackout France shrugged it off. The last time there was a country-wide blackout in France was back in the seventies. I'm not saying our grid infrastructure is perfect, but here we're not worried about losing electricity for an entire week whenever there's a winter storm.
- alecco 1y ago
  The Iberian peninsula blackout was caused by poor planning and over-subsidizing solar. When there's a lot of sunlight and not much demand the prices fall drastically so nuclear plants were turned off to stop losing money. The problem is nuclear energy works as a sort of pacemaker for the whole grid. For months there were warnings of wild fluctuations but the Socialist coalition government ignored them. They had appointed a politician with good optics (a rabid "green"/feminist) to manage the grid who just doubled down on policy until the blackout. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2025_Iberian_Peninsula_blackout#Timeline https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2025_Iberian_Peninsula_blackou... And France might be good today but it is playing with disaster with very old nuclear plants. https://www.lemonde.fr/en/france/article/2023/02/03/the-long-road-to-extending-life-of-french-nuclear-reactors_6014297_7.html https://www.lemonde.fr/en/france/article/2023/02/03/the-long... > Amortize France's 56 existing nuclear reactors as much as possible – which are 37 years old on average currently – is part of EDF's strategy. The highly-indebted company, which is in the process of becoming 100% state-owned again, intends to "make the best use" of its "industrial heritage," Lewandowski also told Le Monde. IMHO the whole EU should do an overhaul and make a reasonable plan to have a decent and stable grid. Some of the best companies and universities for nuclear power are in Europe! The continent should get rid of the rabid "greens". But sadly they always manage to stay in power, even if they get less than 20%! In left-wing coalitions like Spain and France they mark the agenda. And Germany's new "center-right" government needs the "greens" so they have a lot more power than they should. They talk about a plan and nuclear but there's zero funding. It's very sad.
  - 1718627440 1y ago
tiledjinn 1y ago
texas has its own so that it doesn't need to meet the regulations of the others
idiotsecant 1y ago
The US has several dc interties between grid sections. This is a good thing. Texas is a political island, not a good thing.
roxolotl 1y ago
Yes there were plans. A modest portion of the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act of 2021(Bipartisan Infrastructure Bill) and the Inflation Reduction Act involved grid modernization. Some direct grid investment, some around electric vehicles, some in nuclear and other generation. Both were targeted on day one and funds have largely been revoked or tied up in court. https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/01/unleashing-american-energy/ https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/01/unle...

by elric 1y ago

mschuster91 1y ago

> with Texas having their own for some reason. That reason is that Texas wants to avoid federal regulation [1] - regulation that would have prevented the large ass blackout a few years ago in the winter. But hey, 702 deaths [2], a small price to pay for freedom of regulations! > Everyone seems to know that this is both costly and necessary, but not much seems to be happening. Maybe these things simply take time? They take money and political willpower. Both are in short supply - electricity rates here in Europe are already high (and rates in the US very low), so utilities try to avoid pissing off consumers even more, and political willpower for billions of dollars of investment isn't there either as thanks to decades of austerity and trickle-down ideology there is no tax base to pay for it any more. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Interconnection https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Interconnection [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Texas_power_crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Texas_power_crisis

richwater 1y ago
> regulation that would have prevented the large ass blackout a few years ago in the winter. They also produce the most renewable power in the country. If you account for externalities prevented by this (fossil fuel induced damage and deaths), who is looking good now? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_renewable_electricity_production https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_renewab...
- Veliladon 1y ago
  It got so cold that the oil in the wind turbines froze. If Texas was connected to the rest of the country it would be subject to federal regulations that require winterization and even if the wind turbines weren't frozen it would have been able to import power from other places that weren't frozen over.
  - petcat 1y ago
    Frozen wind turbines was a microscopic part of the problem compared to almost half of the fossil fuel natural gas plants being offline due to severe cold and freeze.
    - Veliladon 1y ago
      That too. Coal piles froze. Cooling pumps froze. Water vapor in the natural gas production pipelines froze because it's all fracked. But if they were connected to the East and West interconnections they probably could have rode it out.
    - mschuster91 1y ago
      So... what? Install heating equipment around the pipes. It would have been avoidable, it just would have cost money.
      - petcat 1y ago
        So... what, what? All I said was the natural gas plants freezing is what caused the main problem, not wind turbines.

sam_lowry_ 1y ago

Renewables bring the problem of IoT hacks that down the grid, see https://media.ccc.de/v/why2025-90-horus-scenario-2-0 https://media.ccc.de/v/why2025-90-horus-scenario-2-0 And we need capable governments and EU institutions to fix that instead of doing stupid stuff like organizing conferences on quantum computing.

htrp 1y ago

Texas has its own grid so that is not subject to federal regulation. blame ercot

petcat 1y ago
Texas also produces the 2nd most renewable energy in the country (wind by far + solar) behind California. That achievement was coordinated by ERCOT. Texas's renewable energy buildout was entirely due to state-level policy and economics, not federal mandates, which have sorely lagged in other states.
- ckemere 1y ago
  Weren’t there Federal subsidies for wind? There certainly were/are philanthropic support (customers paying extra for “wind energy”). Unclear what role ERCOT played in these two factors. (Though in the current climate they might have tried to block them.)
  - petcat 1y ago
    Utility-scale wind and solar farmers in Texas receive the same federal tax credits for renewable energy production as everyone else in the country does.
  - placardloop 1y ago
    One of Rick Perry’s signature accomplishments as governor of Texas was that he implemented a few policies mandating the expansion of renewable energy, and also a massive initiative called the Competitive Renewable Energy Zone that funded building high voltage transmission lines that connected population centers in North and Central Texas to the open land in West Texas, which is what enabled massive boosts in wind farms being built in west Texas.

boricj 1y ago

> European grids aren't that much better either, loads of investments needed in order to connect more renewables. On one hand, Spain and Portugal recently suffered a complete blackout. On the other hand, instead of cascading the blackout France shrugged it off. The last time there was a country-wide blackout in France was back in the seventies. I'm not saying our grid infrastructure is perfect, but here we're not worried about losing electricity for an entire week whenever there's a winter storm.

alecco 1y ago
The Iberian peninsula blackout was caused by poor planning and over-subsidizing solar. When there's a lot of sunlight and not much demand the prices fall drastically so nuclear plants were turned off to stop losing money. The problem is nuclear energy works as a sort of pacemaker for the whole grid. For months there were warnings of wild fluctuations but the Socialist coalition government ignored them. They had appointed a politician with good optics (a rabid "green"/feminist) to manage the grid who just doubled down on policy until the blackout. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2025_Iberian_Peninsula_blackout#Timeline https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2025_Iberian_Peninsula_blackou... And France might be good today but it is playing with disaster with very old nuclear plants. https://www.lemonde.fr/en/france/article/2023/02/03/the-long-road-to-extending-life-of-french-nuclear-reactors_6014297_7.html https://www.lemonde.fr/en/france/article/2023/02/03/the-long... > Amortize France's 56 existing nuclear reactors as much as possible – which are 37 years old on average currently – is part of EDF's strategy. The highly-indebted company, which is in the process of becoming 100% state-owned again, intends to "make the best use" of its "industrial heritage," Lewandowski also told Le Monde. IMHO the whole EU should do an overhaul and make a reasonable plan to have a decent and stable grid. Some of the best companies and universities for nuclear power are in Europe! The continent should get rid of the rabid "greens". But sadly they always manage to stay in power, even if they get less than 20%! In left-wing coalitions like Spain and France they mark the agenda. And Germany's new "center-right" government needs the "greens" so they have a lot more power than they should. They talk about a plan and nuclear but there's zero funding. It's very sad.
- 1718627440 1y ago

tiledjinn 1y ago

texas has its own so that it doesn't need to meet the regulations of the others

idiotsecant 1y ago

The US has several dc interties between grid sections. This is a good thing. Texas is a political island, not a good thing.

roxolotl 1y ago

Yes there were plans. A modest portion of the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act of 2021(Bipartisan Infrastructure Bill) and the Inflation Reduction Act involved grid modernization. Some direct grid investment, some around electric vehicles, some in nuclear and other generation. Both were targeted on day one and funds have largely been revoked or tied up in court. https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/01/unleashing-american-energy/ https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/01/unle...