4 ms·

The notch reduces the space available in the top menu bar. And since Apple is still incapable of creating a built-in Bartender-like functionality you end up wit

by troupo 1y ago

The notch reduces the space available in the top menu bar. And since Apple is still incapable of creating a built-in Bartender-like functionality you end up with less space on screen. It's an actual objective fact of life. You don't get a larger 15"/16"/17" inch screen. You get a screen that size minus the notch because of a psychotic obsession with thinness. And then they struggle to compensate for that with barely working workarounds in software that don't cover even half of cases.

monsieurbanana 1y ago
I don't understand your logic unless you're implicitly saying the camera needs to go away, but then you should say so (so that I can properly disagree with you). The notch makes for a smaller menu bar but without the notch there would be no menu bar there, it would take the space underneath instead.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- troupo 1y ago
  > I don't understand your logic unless you're implicitly saying the camera needs to go away Yup. We never had camera before the notch. > The notch makes for a smaller menu bar but without the notch there would be no menu bar there Yup. Before the notch we neither had a menu bar that could comfortably fit most menu items even in professional apps, nor did we have a camera. BTW, you literally are saying "The notch makes for a smaller menu bar". Imagine if I wrote that as the first sentence in my comment, then there would be no misunderstanding
  - ylk 1y ago
    The screen is a 16:10 screen with some extra pixels added next to the notch. By default, the system uses a resolution of 1512x982 (14"), which you can change to 1512x945 (16:10) to move the menu bar below the notch and end up with black pixels next to the notch.
    - troupo 1y ago
      "If you go make weird contortions and workarounds you might just find a semi-working non-solution to a problem that didn't exist until Apple introduced it". Also my response here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44909996 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44909996
  - Yokolos 1y ago
    What MacBook doesn't have a camera?
    - microtonal 1y ago
      They are being sarcastic because the parent post put forward a false dichotomy between a notch and a camera or no notch but no camera.
      - deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
      - monsieurbanana 1y ago
        I didn't think this would be so hard to understand. It's not a false dichotomy, without the notch the screen would have to be smaller to have the camera there. You didn't lose any pixels.
phire 1y ago
If the notch was replaced with a 1cm bezel, then the entire top menu bar would move down by roughly 1cm, and I'd have less screen space for actual content. In some ways, a bezel could be considered to be a "notch" that takes the entire width of the screen. Personally, I've never run out of space in my menu bar, So the notch gives me 1cm of extra screen space. It's nothing to do with thinness. It's about packing the largest possible display into the laptop's width/height. Sure, you could argue to just make the laptop 1cm higher for that bezel, but then why not add a notch and get 2cm of extra screen height?
- troupo 1y ago
  > If the notch was replaced with a 1cm bezel, then the entire top menu bar would move down by roughly 1cm, and I'd have less screen space for actual content. That perceived 1cm is largely meaningless for content. And you get less space in the top menu bar. > Personally, I've never run out of space in my menu bar I have 27 icons in my menu bar. Not because I collect them, but because quite a few apps add their icons there and I use a few of them. On the laptop screen it manages to show 10. IntelliJ idea has 12 top-level menus (I swear they had more). On a laptop the top menu bar manages to show 10 items on the left of the notch, and has to move two more to the right. This both splits the menu for no reason, and reduces the space for icons even further. The notch has been around for 4 years now, and Apple still hasn't provided a solution for the problem they introduced. And, of course, when you want to truly take advantage of "more content" you can't because the "safe screen space" without the notch is still squarely below the notch, and apps have to to be very careful to actually use that, or the notch will get in the way. > It's nothing to do with thinness. Yes, it does. In this case with thinness of bezels. > Sure, you could argue to just make the laptop 1cm higher for that bezel Yes, you could do that if you didn't have an institutional psychosis about thinness everywhere.
  - microtonal 1y ago
    To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if it is requested and/or greenlit by Apple managers who only use their Macs for Safari or Mail. There can't be another way, because the menu splitting and icon disappearance is pretty infuriating. Luckily I have mostly used Macs on external screens the last few years. But it ticks me off every time I actually use a MacBook as a laptop.
vvillena 1y ago
The screen size advertised by Apple measures the "full screen" area, the undisturbed 16:10 rectangle of pixels. I just took measures on both a 14 and a 16 inch Macbook Pro. The screen we get is indeed slighly larger. If you want to avoid the extra space, it's as easy as using a 16:10 resolution size. The menubar will drop down to the 16:10 space.
- righthand 1y ago
  I just tried to do this and Apple has obfuscated that there’s even a 16:10 option. You have to click deep into the Displays customization presets menu. They don’t even label the presets with a display ratio and have them labeled with some obscure Apple design lingo (Apple XDR (P3-1600 nits)). To change it you have to first display the hidden list by enabling a “display resolutions list” toggle. That is not something a “I love Apple because it just works” person can figure out.
  - lilyball 1y ago
    Those presets aren't display ratios, those presets have to do with color profiles, HDR support, etc.
    - righthand 1y ago
      Exactly my point. The setting you’re likely looking for is hidden and a similar one of even more advanced color profile technical options is front and center.

by troupo 1y ago

monsieurbanana 1y ago

I don't understand your logic unless you're implicitly saying the camera needs to go away, but then you should say so (so that I can properly disagree with you). The notch makes for a smaller menu bar but without the notch there would be no menu bar there, it would take the space underneath instead.

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
troupo 1y ago
> I don't understand your logic unless you're implicitly saying the camera needs to go away Yup. We never had camera before the notch. > The notch makes for a smaller menu bar but without the notch there would be no menu bar there Yup. Before the notch we neither had a menu bar that could comfortably fit most menu items even in professional apps, nor did we have a camera. BTW, you literally are saying "The notch makes for a smaller menu bar". Imagine if I wrote that as the first sentence in my comment, then there would be no misunderstanding
- ylk 1y ago
  The screen is a 16:10 screen with some extra pixels added next to the notch. By default, the system uses a resolution of 1512x982 (14"), which you can change to 1512x945 (16:10) to move the menu bar below the notch and end up with black pixels next to the notch.
  - troupo 1y ago
    "If you go make weird contortions and workarounds you might just find a semi-working non-solution to a problem that didn't exist until Apple introduced it". Also my response here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44909996 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44909996
- Yokolos 1y ago
  What MacBook doesn't have a camera?
  - microtonal 1y ago
    They are being sarcastic because the parent post put forward a false dichotomy between a notch and a camera or no notch but no camera.
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
    - monsieurbanana 1y ago
      I didn't think this would be so hard to understand. It's not a false dichotomy, without the notch the screen would have to be smaller to have the camera there. You didn't lose any pixels.

phire 1y ago

If the notch was replaced with a 1cm bezel, then the entire top menu bar would move down by roughly 1cm, and I'd have less screen space for actual content. In some ways, a bezel could be considered to be a "notch" that takes the entire width of the screen. Personally, I've never run out of space in my menu bar, So the notch gives me 1cm of extra screen space. It's nothing to do with thinness. It's about packing the largest possible display into the laptop's width/height. Sure, you could argue to just make the laptop 1cm higher for that bezel, but then why not add a notch and get 2cm of extra screen height?

troupo 1y ago
> If the notch was replaced with a 1cm bezel, then the entire top menu bar would move down by roughly 1cm, and I'd have less screen space for actual content. That perceived 1cm is largely meaningless for content. And you get less space in the top menu bar. > Personally, I've never run out of space in my menu bar I have 27 icons in my menu bar. Not because I collect them, but because quite a few apps add their icons there and I use a few of them. On the laptop screen it manages to show 10. IntelliJ idea has 12 top-level menus (I swear they had more). On a laptop the top menu bar manages to show 10 items on the left of the notch, and has to move two more to the right. This both splits the menu for no reason, and reduces the space for icons even further. The notch has been around for 4 years now, and Apple still hasn't provided a solution for the problem they introduced. And, of course, when you want to truly take advantage of "more content" you can't because the "safe screen space" without the notch is still squarely below the notch, and apps have to to be very careful to actually use that, or the notch will get in the way. > It's nothing to do with thinness. Yes, it does. In this case with thinness of bezels. > Sure, you could argue to just make the laptop 1cm higher for that bezel Yes, you could do that if you didn't have an institutional psychosis about thinness everywhere.
- microtonal 1y ago
  To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if it is requested and/or greenlit by Apple managers who only use their Macs for Safari or Mail. There can't be another way, because the menu splitting and icon disappearance is pretty infuriating. Luckily I have mostly used Macs on external screens the last few years. But it ticks me off every time I actually use a MacBook as a laptop.

vvillena 1y ago

The screen size advertised by Apple measures the "full screen" area, the undisturbed 16:10 rectangle of pixels. I just took measures on both a 14 and a 16 inch Macbook Pro. The screen we get is indeed slighly larger. If you want to avoid the extra space, it's as easy as using a 16:10 resolution size. The menubar will drop down to the 16:10 space.

righthand 1y ago
I just tried to do this and Apple has obfuscated that there’s even a 16:10 option. You have to click deep into the Displays customization presets menu. They don’t even label the presets with a display ratio and have them labeled with some obscure Apple design lingo (Apple XDR (P3-1600 nits)). To change it you have to first display the hidden list by enabling a “display resolutions list” toggle. That is not something a “I love Apple because it just works” person can figure out.
- lilyball 1y ago
  Those presets aren't display ratios, those presets have to do with color profiles, HDR support, etc.
  - righthand 1y ago
    Exactly my point. The setting you’re likely looking for is hidden and a similar one of even more advanced color profile technical options is front and center.