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Piracy is not theft. We already had this debate decades ago, and your side of the debate lost. It's not "theft" by any reasonable interpretation of the word.

by the_af 1y ago

Piracy is not theft. We already had this debate decades ago, and your side of the debate lost. It's not "theft" by any reasonable interpretation of the word. It may not be legal, and it may be many other things, but it's not theft. As to why "people justify it", what's the point of even asking when the article and many comments here explain the reasons? You may disagree with the reasons, but they exist and they are coherent.

keeda 1y ago
> We already had this debate decades ago, and your side of the debate lost. It's not "theft" by any reasonable interpretation of the word. That's only true when you ignore many, many common usages of the word "theft". I would hazard a guess that your interpretations are along the dictionary lines of "depriving a person of their property." However, here are some commonly used forms of the word (supported by wikipedia and government sites) that don't fit that definition: - Wage theft: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wage_theft https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wage_theft - Time theft: https://www.adp.com/resources/articles-and-insights/articles/t/time-theft.aspx https://www.adp.com/resources/articles-and-insights/articles... - Identity theft: https://www.usa.gov/identity-theft https://www.usa.gov/identity-theft - Theft of services: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theft_of_services https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theft_of_services - Theft of trade secrets: https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=TRADE+SECRETS https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=TRADE+SECRETS - Attention theft: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attention_theft https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attention_theft - Data theft: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_theft https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_theft - Electricity theft: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_theft https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_theft - Joke theft: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joke_theft https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joke_theft - Stolen valor: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stolen_valor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stolen_valor And here are more colloquial usages of theft of abstract things: - Credit card theft (it's really just the number that is "stolen") - Password theft (usually "stolen" during a data breach, more numbers being stolen) - Bitcoin theft (even more numbers being "stolen".) Here's a very simple explanation for this: In common parlance, "theft" generally means taking something of economic value -- either physical, like property, or abstract, like labor -- from someone without giving any value in return against their wishes. If you extend this line of thought, you'll see why IP laws exist and why these abstract forms of theft are illegal. And when examined from that perspective, those coherent reasons are basically just different ways of saying "because I can get away with it."
- the_af 1y ago
  As I said, we already had this conversation ages ago and your side lost. Shout until you're blue in the face, and you'll be just as wrong. I've already stated my position, and "because you can get away with it" is no part of it. You must be confusing me with someone else in this conversation. Half your examples fail to make the point you intend, and are not at all analogous to watching a pirated TV show. A lot of the rest use an informal (not legal, and highly subjective) definition of the word "theft" -- but you knew this. It's exhausting to keep repeating this. Please read what's been said (hint: these are decades old arguments, we're not going to rehash them here for your benefit). All of this harkens back to even before the days of the silly "you wouldn't steal a car" (2004) antipiracy campaign. I hope I don't need to explain that stealing a car and pirating a TV show are nothing alike, neither legally nor morally.
  - ninetyninenine 1y ago
    >As I said, we already had this conversation ages ago and your side lost. I had a conversation too. Several conversations. And I won those conversations so YOU lost. In fact, just imagine every single stance you've ever had on any topic and just know I had a conversation about it in the past, and you lost. My point is. Nobody cares about your conversation especially when ALL of those conversations you're referencing are utterly wrong. >It's exhausting to keep repeating this. Please read what's been said (hint: these are decades old arguments, we're not going to rehash them here for your benefit). Who the hell is "we?" How about this. Whoever you're referring to, however many decades you guys spent talking about it... you're all wrong. You wasted decades and came up with a wrong outcome.
    - the_af 1y ago
      I didn't mean us two. I meant the collective consensus. You didn't win. You lost. Read Free Culture by Lessig. > My point is. Nobody cares about your conversation especially when ALL of those conversations you're referencing are utterly wrong. Who the hell is "nobody"? Everything you've said so far is "not even wrong", it's utterly nonsensical. Go read what's been said about the topic for the last two decades, then come back and debate from an informed point of view. Go back to pirating your games while decrying the harm it does. Your position is so inconsistent it makes no sense to debate you.

by the_af 1y ago

keeda 1y ago

> We already had this debate decades ago, and your side of the debate lost. It's not "theft" by any reasonable interpretation of the word. That's only true when you ignore many, many common usages of the word "theft". I would hazard a guess that your interpretations are along the dictionary lines of "depriving a person of their property." However, here are some commonly used forms of the word (supported by wikipedia and government sites) that don't fit that definition: - Wage theft: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wage_theft https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wage_theft - Time theft: https://www.adp.com/resources/articles-and-insights/articles/t/time-theft.aspx https://www.adp.com/resources/articles-and-insights/articles... - Identity theft: https://www.usa.gov/identity-theft https://www.usa.gov/identity-theft - Theft of services: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theft_of_services https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theft_of_services - Theft of trade secrets: https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=TRADE+SECRETS https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=TRADE+SECRETS - Attention theft: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attention_theft https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attention_theft - Data theft: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_theft https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_theft - Electricity theft: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_theft https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_theft - Joke theft: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joke_theft https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joke_theft - Stolen valor: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stolen_valor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stolen_valor And here are more colloquial usages of theft of abstract things: - Credit card theft (it's really just the number that is "stolen") - Password theft (usually "stolen" during a data breach, more numbers being stolen) - Bitcoin theft (even more numbers being "stolen".) Here's a very simple explanation for this: In common parlance, "theft" generally means taking something of economic value -- either physical, like property, or abstract, like labor -- from someone without giving any value in return against their wishes. If you extend this line of thought, you'll see why IP laws exist and why these abstract forms of theft are illegal. And when examined from that perspective, those coherent reasons are basically just different ways of saying "because I can get away with it."

the_af 1y ago
As I said, we already had this conversation ages ago and your side lost. Shout until you're blue in the face, and you'll be just as wrong. I've already stated my position, and "because you can get away with it" is no part of it. You must be confusing me with someone else in this conversation. Half your examples fail to make the point you intend, and are not at all analogous to watching a pirated TV show. A lot of the rest use an informal (not legal, and highly subjective) definition of the word "theft" -- but you knew this. It's exhausting to keep repeating this. Please read what's been said (hint: these are decades old arguments, we're not going to rehash them here for your benefit). All of this harkens back to even before the days of the silly "you wouldn't steal a car" (2004) antipiracy campaign. I hope I don't need to explain that stealing a car and pirating a TV show are nothing alike, neither legally nor morally.
- ninetyninenine 1y ago
  >As I said, we already had this conversation ages ago and your side lost. I had a conversation too. Several conversations. And I won those conversations so YOU lost. In fact, just imagine every single stance you've ever had on any topic and just know I had a conversation about it in the past, and you lost. My point is. Nobody cares about your conversation especially when ALL of those conversations you're referencing are utterly wrong. >It's exhausting to keep repeating this. Please read what's been said (hint: these are decades old arguments, we're not going to rehash them here for your benefit). Who the hell is "we?" How about this. Whoever you're referring to, however many decades you guys spent talking about it... you're all wrong. You wasted decades and came up with a wrong outcome.
  - the_af 1y ago
    I didn't mean us two. I meant the collective consensus. You didn't win. You lost. Read Free Culture by Lessig. > My point is. Nobody cares about your conversation especially when ALL of those conversations you're referencing are utterly wrong. Who the hell is "nobody"? Everything you've said so far is "not even wrong", it's utterly nonsensical. Go read what's been said about the topic for the last two decades, then come back and debate from an informed point of view. Go back to pirating your games while decrying the harm it does. Your position is so inconsistent it makes no sense to debate you.