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they have a branding problem - they are starting to being perceived like a snobby brand with ridiculously overpriced products sold as a status symbol - a Balanc

they have a branding problem - they are starting to being perceived like a snobby brand with ridiculously overpriced products sold as a status symbol - a Balanciaga of creative tech basically so they are trying to put out some cheap good value products to signal a return of the original hacker ethos

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
wahnfrieden 1y ago
They’ve always had those two tiers of pricing/products. That’s a read from a decade ago
- isoprophlex 1y ago
  Browsing through their store I see only the "overpriced balenciaga-tier bullshit" category though... Edit: i kinda take that back, as two people pointed out that EP-133 sampler actually has an okay feature-to-price ratio. But $250 leather wraps to "transport" your OP-1 in tho, or $250 singing wooden dolls without obvious interfaces except bluetooth midi... i guess I'm not the target market
  - grimoald 1y ago
    The pocket operators and the EP-133 sampler are fairly priced.
    - imp0cat 1y ago
      Yeah, the pocket operators are fine. starting to being perceived [...] brand with ridiculously overpriced products I am confused, I thought they always were perceived as such a brand. Perhaps not snobby, but great stuff, which is also expensive.
  - unfunco 1y ago
    The field system is probably what you're seeing, products like the EP-133 are reasonably priced: https://teenage.engineering/store/ep-133 https://teenage.engineering/store/ep-133
  - wahnfrieden 1y ago
    When PO debuted they were $49
  - wahnfrieden 1y ago
    They also have a free Android instrument, and their modular line is very cheap relatively
monster_truck 1y ago
This is a naive take, borderlining on bait. They are not 'trying', they have by and large succeeded. Both the PO and KO series devices are fantastic value for their respective prices. If you consider something like the TX-6 an overpriced status symbol, you have clearly never tried to make a 6 channel stereo mixer this small with these specs. And if you can't imagine a use for something so small and portable, then it simply isn't for you.
- microtonal 1y ago
  While the POs are fun devices for their price, the KO-II is a very limited, frustrating device. I fell into the hype and got one and after only two weeks after a complete beginner I realized I bought an over-expensive toy. An SP-404 MKII only costs a bit more and completely blows it away - actually usable display, almost unlimited sample storage, nicer step editing, far better and useful FX, etc. TE hypers will say it is much more complex and thus less fun and 'immediate' (they love to use that word), but for me the learning curve was about equal (for using the same functionality, the MK-II has much more functionality). Or, since this is Hacker News. The Dirtywave M8 is a much much nicer device (does sampling and is a good ol' tracker) with synths, etc. Sure, it is more expensive, but you can make an M8 headless for just the price of a Teensy MCU. The UI is also much quicker and nicer than the KO-II once you get a feel for it. tl;dr: bought a KO-II, even as a beginner I ran into its limits almost immediately. There are much better devices out there at similar price points (or much cheaper if you hook up an M8 headless to a laptop or cheap handheld game console).
  - JoeyJoJoJr 1y ago
    FYI, you can also connect that Teensy to one of those portable gameboy style handhelds to get an experience closer to the actual M8.
    - microtonal 1y ago
      Yep, I mentioned that at the end :). Got a real M8 second-hand, love it! So compact for travel etc.
kristopolous 1y ago
I never saw them in any other way. High end brands with conspicuous design have existed in tech for at least 100 years. Fancy cars, televisions and audio equipment for instance. Before that, there were ornate luxury tools.
thomascountz 1y ago
Being called "...a Balanciaga of creative tech" isn't a "branding problem," if it is, in fact, the brand. We may or may not agree about it being a brand we'd buy, of even if it's an accurate description, but there's little doubt for me that TE has an identifiably unique and profitable brand.
motorest 1y ago
> they have a branding problem - they are starting to being perceived like a snobby brand with ridiculously overpriced products sold as a status symbol - a Balanciaga of creative tech basically I don't think your opinion is well grounded. Their whole product line, from the inception, was luxury high-end, sometimes gimmicky, media devices. Why do you feel justified to tag the "hacker ethos" buzzword? Because some of their products sell as PCB-only/optional custom case format?
gyomu 1y ago
The world of music hardware is an interesting one. You'll meet some amazing musicians who have been touring for decades and are still playing on the same guitar they got for $800 15 years ago. And you'll meet people who drop 5 figures on synth gear every year and have never put together a single track. If you're running a business selling electronic music gear, who would you rather target?
- cole-k 1y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trigger_(guitar) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trigger_(guitar) Not to defend Teenage Engineering, but I have seen a surprising number of OP-1s in music videos/live performances of bands I respect. Does that justify its price tag? I feel somewhat certain in saying "no," but I have no expertise. Love its aesthetics though.
  - gyomu 1y ago
    The OP1 is a genius piece of design tbh. It is very flexible and powerful for its small size, and devices in its category were very rare when it first came out (it helped define the modern incarnation of that category). It was pricy but still under the $1k mark - pretty standard for a piece of consumer creative gear. The design made it extremely approachable, which means a ton of techie people who wouldn't be into music gear otherwise still wanted to grab one just to try it and who knows, maybe it'd turn them into musicians. So yeah, fantastically designed piece of kit. Lots of respect to TE for having brought that into the world. I think a lot of the frustration directed at TE more recently is due to the fact that that base equation around price/features/quality of the product, which was very good for the OP1, has only gotten worse for later products. And the OP1 itself, despite being an almost 15 year old product, has gone up in price A LOT (and the 1f upgrades don't justify the bump).
    - phatskat 1y ago
      I fell in love with the OP1 when I first saw it many many years ago. A few years back I took some of my bonus and finally got one, despite the price being a little higher than launch (I want to say maybe $1500?). It’s an amazing little piece of gear and is super fun - it’s definitely not for everyone, and requires a different approach to music making that (for me) focuses less on the functional, reproducible aspect, and more on an ephemeral journey that might end in a new track or might just be a jam, but I hardly ever fire it up and walk way not having a good time. Currently have it wired to a Deluge and a POM-400, and mostly I send some MIDI notes to the OP1 for some added depth. But the synth engine feels so rich and powerful for such a little bugger! 10/10 would recommend and also there’s probably a lot more bang for your musical buck out there (cough couch Deluge)

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

wahnfrieden 1y ago

They’ve always had those two tiers of pricing/products. That’s a read from a decade ago

isoprophlex 1y ago
Browsing through their store I see only the "overpriced balenciaga-tier bullshit" category though... Edit: i kinda take that back, as two people pointed out that EP-133 sampler actually has an okay feature-to-price ratio. But $250 leather wraps to "transport" your OP-1 in tho, or $250 singing wooden dolls without obvious interfaces except bluetooth midi... i guess I'm not the target market
- grimoald 1y ago
  The pocket operators and the EP-133 sampler are fairly priced.
  - imp0cat 1y ago
    Yeah, the pocket operators are fine. starting to being perceived [...] brand with ridiculously overpriced products I am confused, I thought they always were perceived as such a brand. Perhaps not snobby, but great stuff, which is also expensive.
- unfunco 1y ago
  The field system is probably what you're seeing, products like the EP-133 are reasonably priced: https://teenage.engineering/store/ep-133 https://teenage.engineering/store/ep-133
- wahnfrieden 1y ago
  When PO debuted they were $49
- wahnfrieden 1y ago
  They also have a free Android instrument, and their modular line is very cheap relatively

monster_truck 1y ago

This is a naive take, borderlining on bait. They are not 'trying', they have by and large succeeded. Both the PO and KO series devices are fantastic value for their respective prices. If you consider something like the TX-6 an overpriced status symbol, you have clearly never tried to make a 6 channel stereo mixer this small with these specs. And if you can't imagine a use for something so small and portable, then it simply isn't for you.

microtonal 1y ago
While the POs are fun devices for their price, the KO-II is a very limited, frustrating device. I fell into the hype and got one and after only two weeks after a complete beginner I realized I bought an over-expensive toy. An SP-404 MKII only costs a bit more and completely blows it away - actually usable display, almost unlimited sample storage, nicer step editing, far better and useful FX, etc. TE hypers will say it is much more complex and thus less fun and 'immediate' (they love to use that word), but for me the learning curve was about equal (for using the same functionality, the MK-II has much more functionality). Or, since this is Hacker News. The Dirtywave M8 is a much much nicer device (does sampling and is a good ol' tracker) with synths, etc. Sure, it is more expensive, but you can make an M8 headless for just the price of a Teensy MCU. The UI is also much quicker and nicer than the KO-II once you get a feel for it. tl;dr: bought a KO-II, even as a beginner I ran into its limits almost immediately. There are much better devices out there at similar price points (or much cheaper if you hook up an M8 headless to a laptop or cheap handheld game console).
- JoeyJoJoJr 1y ago
  FYI, you can also connect that Teensy to one of those portable gameboy style handhelds to get an experience closer to the actual M8.
  - microtonal 1y ago
    Yep, I mentioned that at the end :). Got a real M8 second-hand, love it! So compact for travel etc.

kristopolous 1y ago

I never saw them in any other way. High end brands with conspicuous design have existed in tech for at least 100 years. Fancy cars, televisions and audio equipment for instance. Before that, there were ornate luxury tools.

thomascountz 1y ago

Being called "...a Balanciaga of creative tech" isn't a "branding problem," if it is, in fact, the brand. We may or may not agree about it being a brand we'd buy, of even if it's an accurate description, but there's little doubt for me that TE has an identifiably unique and profitable brand.

motorest 1y ago

> they have a branding problem - they are starting to being perceived like a snobby brand with ridiculously overpriced products sold as a status symbol - a Balanciaga of creative tech basically I don't think your opinion is well grounded. Their whole product line, from the inception, was luxury high-end, sometimes gimmicky, media devices. Why do you feel justified to tag the "hacker ethos" buzzword? Because some of their products sell as PCB-only/optional custom case format?

gyomu 1y ago

The world of music hardware is an interesting one. You'll meet some amazing musicians who have been touring for decades and are still playing on the same guitar they got for $800 15 years ago. And you'll meet people who drop 5 figures on synth gear every year and have never put together a single track. If you're running a business selling electronic music gear, who would you rather target?

cole-k 1y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trigger_(guitar) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trigger_(guitar) Not to defend Teenage Engineering, but I have seen a surprising number of OP-1s in music videos/live performances of bands I respect. Does that justify its price tag? I feel somewhat certain in saying "no," but I have no expertise. Love its aesthetics though.
- gyomu 1y ago
  The OP1 is a genius piece of design tbh. It is very flexible and powerful for its small size, and devices in its category were very rare when it first came out (it helped define the modern incarnation of that category). It was pricy but still under the $1k mark - pretty standard for a piece of consumer creative gear. The design made it extremely approachable, which means a ton of techie people who wouldn't be into music gear otherwise still wanted to grab one just to try it and who knows, maybe it'd turn them into musicians. So yeah, fantastically designed piece of kit. Lots of respect to TE for having brought that into the world. I think a lot of the frustration directed at TE more recently is due to the fact that that base equation around price/features/quality of the product, which was very good for the OP1, has only gotten worse for later products. And the OP1 itself, despite being an almost 15 year old product, has gone up in price A LOT (and the 1f upgrades don't justify the bump).
  - phatskat 1y ago
    I fell in love with the OP1 when I first saw it many many years ago. A few years back I took some of my bonus and finally got one, despite the price being a little higher than launch (I want to say maybe $1500?). It’s an amazing little piece of gear and is super fun - it’s definitely not for everyone, and requires a different approach to music making that (for me) focuses less on the functional, reproducible aspect, and more on an ephemeral journey that might end in a new track or might just be a jam, but I hardly ever fire it up and walk way not having a good time. Currently have it wired to a Deluge and a POM-400, and mostly I send some MIDI notes to the OP1 for some added depth. But the synth engine feels so rich and powerful for such a little bugger! 10/10 would recommend and also there’s probably a lot more bang for your musical buck out there (cough couch Deluge)