5 ms·

Don't think of notches as something stupid that takes away from screen area. Think of them as something that allows the overall screen area to increase, as bev

Don't think of notches as something stupid that takes away from screen area. Think of them as something that allows the overall screen area to increase, as bevels shrink. And then when the corners of the screen are so close to the corner of the laptop, and the corner of the laptop is rounded, it looks weird if the corner of the screen isn't rounded. Like a square peg in a round hole. Fortunately, it's all context-dependent. So when you watch a video that is inherently rectangular on a Mac, that takes precedence. It's only shown below the notch, and the rounded corners on the bottom disappear. So it's kind of the best of all worlds. Bigger screen with round corners for actual work (the notch is not particularly objectionable in the menu bar), slightly smaller screen with rectangular corners for video (and games too I assume?).

ratmeadow 1y ago
Is bevel size really so important when it's already measured in mm? Personally I like a bit of bevel because I don't want the screen going to the edge of the device. The edge of the device is for holding, not interaction.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- crazygringo 1y ago
  No, screen size is important. For the same size laptop, less bevel means more screen. And I don't about you but I don't hold the screen half of my laptop. Not unless the laptop is closed. So I don't see how that's a concern.
  - pezezin 1y ago
    But a cell phone, maybe. For a laptop, we are talking about a couple of millimetres on each side max, it is not a big deal.
    - userbinator 1y ago
      ...and then the same "more space!!!111" people run apps which fill their screen with useless whitespace.
      - LtWorf 1y ago
        I mean… I would be very happy to whip designers in public but I think that's illegal.
  - mikestew 1y ago
    For the love of $DEITY, it’s bezel! :-) https://www.howtogeek.com/762611/what-is-a-bezel/ https://www.howtogeek.com/762611/what-is-a-bezel/
    - mcv 1y ago
      I've often wondered about that, because I often see them used interchangeably (and not just here). But you're absolutely right. Here's a random site I found that explains it: https://www.difference.wiki/bevel-vs-bezel/ https://www.difference.wiki/bevel-vs-bezel/ Is the similarity of the word the only reason they often get mixed up? I think another factor is that flat surfaces surrounded by an angled bevel are fairly common. For example. I just noticed that the bezel of one of my monitors is also beveled.
    - bregma 1y ago
      The bezel on my monitor has a bevel.
    - crazygringo 1y ago
      TIL. Thank you! Suddenly realizing I've had the words confused my whole life :S
  - ratmeadow 1y ago
    My point was at some point maximising screen size is less important than other usability factors. For phone definitely I do not want screen near the edge because fingers are there. For laptop, true, it's less of an issue. Although while opening my macbook my finger is about 1mm from touching the screen. And the other comment about wasting screen space is funny. Yeah we need 1mm of extra phone screen space when 60% of most webpages are covered with ads (separate problem but still amusing in combination).
  - lightedman 1y ago
    Hi, laptop repair tech here. You want more bezel. Screens with less bezel have less overall edge protection and will break easier due to opening or closing forces or impacts. Bezel-less screens are fragile pieces of junk.
    - dreamcompiler 1y ago
      Tell me about it. I've replaced 2 screens on a MBP. One was from cleaning the edge of the screen. I applied just a little too much pressure and it destroyed the whole screen. Another was when my kitten bit the edge of the screen. It didn't even leave a mark but it was just enough concentrated pressure at the edge of the screen that it killed it. Now I'm a lot more careful, but thank goodness for Applecare.
eviks 1y ago
> then when the corners of the screen are so close to the corner of the laptop, and the corner of the laptop is rounded, it looks weird if the corner of the screen isn't rounded. The rounded laptop corners is a similar design decision. And also it doesn't look weird to me at all compared to rounded corners for windows, especially when they introduce visible desktop garbage in those now-not-perfectly-covering-rectangles corner areas
- Etheryte 1y ago
  Rounded corners are not simply an aesthetic design choice, they make the device more durable as there's less of a pinch point when you drop, snag or mishandle the device.
troupo 1y ago
The notch reduces the space available in the top menu bar. And since Apple is still incapable of creating a built-in Bartender-like functionality you end up with less space on screen. It's an actual objective fact of life. You don't get a larger 15"/16"/17" inch screen. You get a screen that size minus the notch because of a psychotic obsession with thinness. And then they struggle to compensate for that with barely working workarounds in software that don't cover even half of cases.
- monsieurbanana 1y ago
  I don't understand your logic unless you're implicitly saying the camera needs to go away, but then you should say so (so that I can properly disagree with you). The notch makes for a smaller menu bar but without the notch there would be no menu bar there, it would take the space underneath instead.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - troupo 1y ago
    > I don't understand your logic unless you're implicitly saying the camera needs to go away Yup. We never had camera before the notch. > The notch makes for a smaller menu bar but without the notch there would be no menu bar there Yup. Before the notch we neither had a menu bar that could comfortably fit most menu items even in professional apps, nor did we have a camera. BTW, you literally are saying "The notch makes for a smaller menu bar". Imagine if I wrote that as the first sentence in my comment, then there would be no misunderstanding
    - ylk 1y ago
      The screen is a 16:10 screen with some extra pixels added next to the notch. By default, the system uses a resolution of 1512x982 (14"), which you can change to 1512x945 (16:10) to move the menu bar below the notch and end up with black pixels next to the notch.
anonymoushn 1y ago
my menu icons are hiding behind the notch lol
incrudible 1y ago
First of all, you can not argue anyone out of thinking it looks stupid or ugly. That is a visceral subjective experience and the extra space or whatever does nothing to make up for it. Now for the bezels, mind that an equidistant circle (or squircle) radius converges to zero. So to avoid having a large inner radius, avoid a large outer radius. The Macbook is not a tablet, you do not hold its corners in your hand. However, at some point Apple must have decided that the squircle is its entire visual identity and that hard corners on the XY plane are bad. That creates design problems it would not otherwise have. The fact that developers are led into the trap of not pixel matching to the display however just shows a lack of attention to detail.
- jameshart 1y ago
  The bottom corners of a MacBook screen are not rounded. The top corners are because the corners of the case are rounded. The corners of the case are rounded because you need to be able to do things like slide it into a laptop bag.
  - crazygringo 1y ago
    > The bottom corners of a MacBook screen are not rounded. They are on my M4 MBA. They're software-rounded rather than in the hardware. You can move the pointer over the lower rounded corners; you can't over the upper ones.
pdpi 1y ago
> Fortunately, it's all context-dependent. So when you watch a video that is inherently rectangular on a Mac, that takes precedence. It's only shown below the notch, and the rounded corners on the bottom disappear. Also, it's worth noting that notches are a hardware-specific. I haven't tried any of the MBAs with notches, but the MBPs have good-enough black levels that the notch just kind of vanishes into the black background when using full-screen apps.

ratmeadow 1y ago

Is bevel size really so important when it's already measured in mm? Personally I like a bit of bevel because I don't want the screen going to the edge of the device. The edge of the device is for holding, not interaction.

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
crazygringo 1y ago
No, screen size is important. For the same size laptop, less bevel means more screen. And I don't about you but I don't hold the screen half of my laptop. Not unless the laptop is closed. So I don't see how that's a concern.
- pezezin 1y ago
  But a cell phone, maybe. For a laptop, we are talking about a couple of millimetres on each side max, it is not a big deal.
  - userbinator 1y ago
    ...and then the same "more space!!!111" people run apps which fill their screen with useless whitespace.
    - LtWorf 1y ago
      I mean… I would be very happy to whip designers in public but I think that's illegal.
- mikestew 1y ago
  For the love of $DEITY, it’s bezel! :-) https://www.howtogeek.com/762611/what-is-a-bezel/ https://www.howtogeek.com/762611/what-is-a-bezel/
  - mcv 1y ago
    I've often wondered about that, because I often see them used interchangeably (and not just here). But you're absolutely right. Here's a random site I found that explains it: https://www.difference.wiki/bevel-vs-bezel/ https://www.difference.wiki/bevel-vs-bezel/ Is the similarity of the word the only reason they often get mixed up? I think another factor is that flat surfaces surrounded by an angled bevel are fairly common. For example. I just noticed that the bezel of one of my monitors is also beveled.
  - bregma 1y ago
    The bezel on my monitor has a bevel.
  - crazygringo 1y ago
    TIL. Thank you! Suddenly realizing I've had the words confused my whole life :S
- ratmeadow 1y ago
  My point was at some point maximising screen size is less important than other usability factors. For phone definitely I do not want screen near the edge because fingers are there. For laptop, true, it's less of an issue. Although while opening my macbook my finger is about 1mm from touching the screen. And the other comment about wasting screen space is funny. Yeah we need 1mm of extra phone screen space when 60% of most webpages are covered with ads (separate problem but still amusing in combination).
- lightedman 1y ago
  Hi, laptop repair tech here. You want more bezel. Screens with less bezel have less overall edge protection and will break easier due to opening or closing forces or impacts. Bezel-less screens are fragile pieces of junk.
  - dreamcompiler 1y ago
    Tell me about it. I've replaced 2 screens on a MBP. One was from cleaning the edge of the screen. I applied just a little too much pressure and it destroyed the whole screen. Another was when my kitten bit the edge of the screen. It didn't even leave a mark but it was just enough concentrated pressure at the edge of the screen that it killed it. Now I'm a lot more careful, but thank goodness for Applecare.

eviks 1y ago

> then when the corners of the screen are so close to the corner of the laptop, and the corner of the laptop is rounded, it looks weird if the corner of the screen isn't rounded. The rounded laptop corners is a similar design decision. And also it doesn't look weird to me at all compared to rounded corners for windows, especially when they introduce visible desktop garbage in those now-not-perfectly-covering-rectangles corner areas

Etheryte 1y ago
Rounded corners are not simply an aesthetic design choice, they make the device more durable as there's less of a pinch point when you drop, snag or mishandle the device.

troupo 1y ago

The notch reduces the space available in the top menu bar. And since Apple is still incapable of creating a built-in Bartender-like functionality you end up with less space on screen. It's an actual objective fact of life. You don't get a larger 15"/16"/17" inch screen. You get a screen that size minus the notch because of a psychotic obsession with thinness. And then they struggle to compensate for that with barely working workarounds in software that don't cover even half of cases.

monsieurbanana 1y ago
I don't understand your logic unless you're implicitly saying the camera needs to go away, but then you should say so (so that I can properly disagree with you). The notch makes for a smaller menu bar but without the notch there would be no menu bar there, it would take the space underneath instead.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- troupo 1y ago
  > I don't understand your logic unless you're implicitly saying the camera needs to go away Yup. We never had camera before the notch. > The notch makes for a smaller menu bar but without the notch there would be no menu bar there Yup. Before the notch we neither had a menu bar that could comfortably fit most menu items even in professional apps, nor did we have a camera. BTW, you literally are saying "The notch makes for a smaller menu bar". Imagine if I wrote that as the first sentence in my comment, then there would be no misunderstanding
  - ylk 1y ago
    The screen is a 16:10 screen with some extra pixels added next to the notch. By default, the system uses a resolution of 1512x982 (14"), which you can change to 1512x945 (16:10) to move the menu bar below the notch and end up with black pixels next to the notch.

anonymoushn 1y ago

my menu icons are hiding behind the notch lol

incrudible 1y ago

First of all, you can not argue anyone out of thinking it looks stupid or ugly. That is a visceral subjective experience and the extra space or whatever does nothing to make up for it. Now for the bezels, mind that an equidistant circle (or squircle) radius converges to zero. So to avoid having a large inner radius, avoid a large outer radius. The Macbook is not a tablet, you do not hold its corners in your hand. However, at some point Apple must have decided that the squircle is its entire visual identity and that hard corners on the XY plane are bad. That creates design problems it would not otherwise have. The fact that developers are led into the trap of not pixel matching to the display however just shows a lack of attention to detail.

jameshart 1y ago
The bottom corners of a MacBook screen are not rounded. The top corners are because the corners of the case are rounded. The corners of the case are rounded because you need to be able to do things like slide it into a laptop bag.
- crazygringo 1y ago
  > The bottom corners of a MacBook screen are not rounded. They are on my M4 MBA. They're software-rounded rather than in the hardware. You can move the pointer over the lower rounded corners; you can't over the upper ones.

pdpi 1y ago

> Fortunately, it's all context-dependent. So when you watch a video that is inherently rectangular on a Mac, that takes precedence. It's only shown below the notch, and the rounded corners on the bottom disappear. Also, it's worth noting that notches are a hardware-specific. I haven't tried any of the MBAs with notches, but the MBPs have good-enough black levels that the notch just kind of vanishes into the black background when using full-screen apps.