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To say nothing of the exorbitant amount of water used to cool these machines, we’re on track to face a water shortage crisis long before any other climate chang

To say nothing of the exorbitant amount of water used to cool these machines, we’re on track to face a water shortage crisis long before any other climate change impact.

arghwhat 1y ago
Water availability is a regional climate change impact, which does not apply everywhere due to differences in water sourcing and weather patterns and how climate change affects these. It's very stupid to evaporate potable water on purpose in dry regions, but note that many numbers in this area are highly sensationalized by taking e.g. the maximum design capacity of the cooling system instead of the actual load, and that there are several other cooling solutions. Most proper facts die tragic deaths before they make it to mainstream news media. :/
- croes 1y ago
  Water vapor is a greenhouse gas
  - arghwhat 1y ago
    And sunlight causes skin cancer, but we don't want to boycott neither water vapor nor sunlight lest we will have no precipitation and no... life. Water evaporates constantly in from soil, plants, and water bodies - most notably from the ocean itself, which is how ~babby~ precipitation is formed. Evaporation from a datacenter is unlikely to make any notable impact through water vapor. What it could impact is highly localized potable water availability and humidity in places with e.g. low precipitation and limited reservoir capacity. And, again, note that other cooling methods are also in use, and that other things also use evaporative cooling. Heck, even when evaporative cooling is used, it doesn't necessarily mean that the water escapes into the atmosphere! Both heat pipes and refrigeration cycles are forms of evaporative cooling where the gas is allowed to condense, cool and evaporate again.
    - croes 1y ago
      All the small things that affect the climate pile up. > Water evaporates constantly in from soil, plants, and water bodies - most notably from the ocean itself, which is how ~babby~ precipitation is formed. And CO2 is constantly released too. The point are the additional released greenhouse gases BTW we kind of boycott sunlight, it’s called sunscreen
      - arghwhat 1y ago
        That's really doesn't apply to water vapor where the natural evaporation is many orders if magnitude grater than what were dealing with, and is a required part of the natural cycle to replenish water reservoirs, with the natural cycle being incredibly short and increased evaporation shortening that cycle. The issue with greenhouse gasses is their potent impact combined with long lifetime. CO2 has to be slowly absorbed by e.g. plants, and adding more does not speed up the process unlike for water vapor. You also cannot evaporate past 100% relative humidity, an amount of water saturation that naturally occurs. This is unlike gas emissions, where the sky is the limit. > BTW we kind of boycott sunlight, it’s called sunscreen Unless you're applying it to the sun, that's not boycotting sunlight, it's adapting to it. Not to mention that your skin requires sunlight, sunscreen just avoids overexposure.
- grafmax 1y ago
  Many of the reports are not sensationalized, but based on the companies’ own reporting of water usage. Water is preferred for cooling the dense data centers needed for AI - other methods are inadequate. And 2/3rds of new data centers in the US are built in water-stressed areas. While some reports may be sensationalized we deceive ourselves if we conclude that the water scarcity problem as a mirage. It’s a real problem.
esafak 1y ago
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-cloud/blog/2024/12/09/sustainable-by-design-next-generation-datacenters-consume-zero-water-for-cooling/ https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-cloud/blog/2024/12...

To say nothing of the exorbitant amount of water used to cool these machines, we’re on track to face a water shortage crisis long before any other climate change impact.

arghwhat 1y ago

Water availability is a regional climate change impact, which does not apply everywhere due to differences in water sourcing and weather patterns and how climate change affects these. It's very stupid to evaporate potable water on purpose in dry regions, but note that many numbers in this area are highly sensationalized by taking e.g. the maximum design capacity of the cooling system instead of the actual load, and that there are several other cooling solutions. Most proper facts die tragic deaths before they make it to mainstream news media. :/

croes 1y ago
Water vapor is a greenhouse gas
- arghwhat 1y ago
  And sunlight causes skin cancer, but we don't want to boycott neither water vapor nor sunlight lest we will have no precipitation and no... life. Water evaporates constantly in from soil, plants, and water bodies - most notably from the ocean itself, which is how ~babby~ precipitation is formed. Evaporation from a datacenter is unlikely to make any notable impact through water vapor. What it could impact is highly localized potable water availability and humidity in places with e.g. low precipitation and limited reservoir capacity. And, again, note that other cooling methods are also in use, and that other things also use evaporative cooling. Heck, even when evaporative cooling is used, it doesn't necessarily mean that the water escapes into the atmosphere! Both heat pipes and refrigeration cycles are forms of evaporative cooling where the gas is allowed to condense, cool and evaporate again.
  - croes 1y ago
    All the small things that affect the climate pile up. > Water evaporates constantly in from soil, plants, and water bodies - most notably from the ocean itself, which is how ~babby~ precipitation is formed. And CO2 is constantly released too. The point are the additional released greenhouse gases BTW we kind of boycott sunlight, it’s called sunscreen
    - arghwhat 1y ago
      That's really doesn't apply to water vapor where the natural evaporation is many orders if magnitude grater than what were dealing with, and is a required part of the natural cycle to replenish water reservoirs, with the natural cycle being incredibly short and increased evaporation shortening that cycle. The issue with greenhouse gasses is their potent impact combined with long lifetime. CO2 has to be slowly absorbed by e.g. plants, and adding more does not speed up the process unlike for water vapor. You also cannot evaporate past 100% relative humidity, an amount of water saturation that naturally occurs. This is unlike gas emissions, where the sky is the limit. > BTW we kind of boycott sunlight, it’s called sunscreen Unless you're applying it to the sun, that's not boycotting sunlight, it's adapting to it. Not to mention that your skin requires sunlight, sunscreen just avoids overexposure.
grafmax 1y ago
Many of the reports are not sensationalized, but based on the companies’ own reporting of water usage. Water is preferred for cooling the dense data centers needed for AI - other methods are inadequate. And 2/3rds of new data centers in the US are built in water-stressed areas. While some reports may be sensationalized we deceive ourselves if we conclude that the water scarcity problem as a mirage. It’s a real problem.

esafak 1y ago

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-cloud/blog/2024/12/09/sustainable-by-design-next-generation-datacenters-consume-zero-water-for-cooling/ https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-cloud/blog/2024/12...