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People jumping through hoops with smart tricks, because Apple are too stuck up to support Vulkan natively.

by shmerl 1y ago

pjmlp 1y ago
Just wait when they hear about game consoles. Apparently game devs have been doing just fine with middleware solution since the days of Atari.
- shmerl 1y ago
  Apple doesn't care about gamers, so gamers shouldn't care about Apple.
  - pjmlp 1y ago
    Apple does surely care about gamers, people keep forgetting about iDevices. "- Mobile games generated $81 billion revenue in 2023 across both platforms - iOS was responsible for $47.7 billion of that revenue, Google Play generated $33.3 billion - Mobile was responsible for 49% of total game revenues, close to PC and console totals combined" https://www.businessofapps.com/data/mobile-games-revenue/ https://www.businessofapps.com/data/mobile-games-revenue/
    - shmerl 1y ago
      No, they care about telling gamers what they should do, not about enabling gamers what they want to play. That's very much not the same thing. That's a general thing with Apple - they act as if they know better than the user what user needs and they force it on their user base. Someone keeps forgetting they literally dropped OpenGL and 32-bit support, making a lot of existing games on their own systems unplayable. Not supporting Vulkan is just another example of the above.
justsid 1y ago
I would rather Apple actively maintains Metal than halfheartedly support Vulkan the way they supported OpenGL. If you have a relatively good graphics abstraction layer in your engine already, implementing a Metal backend isn't super hard, especially if you already support Vulkan or D3D12. Metal is a lot like diet Vulkan/D3D12, except for a couple of really odd decisions. The hardest part about supporting Apple systems is honestly everything else and no amount of Vulkan drivers is going to help with that.
- shmerl 1y ago
  Apple aren't some resource lacking entity. They can support Vulkan properly and there is no excuse not to.
  - justsid 1y ago
    Sure but in the meantime some of us have to actually keep shipping products and in that world I'd rather see Apple support their own thing that they are at least mildly interested in pushing forward.
    - shmerl 1y ago
      In the end Apple doesn't care about what anyone but Apple needs. So who knows, they might kill Metal tomorrow because they'll think their new NIH will serve their lock-in needs better (especially after Vulkan on Metal will get better through this kind of efforts). Point is they are a very bad industry player damaging things for everyone. They surely don't care about making things better for developers.

People jumping through hoops with smart tricks, because Apple are too stuck up to support Vulkan natively.

by shmerl 1y ago

People jumping through hoops with smart tricks, because Apple are too stuck up to support Vulkan natively.

Just wait when they hear about game consoles. Apparently game devs have been doing just fine with middleware solution since the days of Atari.

shmerl 1y ago
Apple doesn't care about gamers, so gamers shouldn't care about Apple.
- pjmlp 1y ago
  Apple does surely care about gamers, people keep forgetting about iDevices. "- Mobile games generated $81 billion revenue in 2023 across both platforms - iOS was responsible for $47.7 billion of that revenue, Google Play generated $33.3 billion - Mobile was responsible for 49% of total game revenues, close to PC and console totals combined" https://www.businessofapps.com/data/mobile-games-revenue/ https://www.businessofapps.com/data/mobile-games-revenue/
  - shmerl 1y ago
    No, they care about telling gamers what they should do, not about enabling gamers what they want to play. That's very much not the same thing. That's a general thing with Apple - they act as if they know better than the user what user needs and they force it on their user base. Someone keeps forgetting they literally dropped OpenGL and 32-bit support, making a lot of existing games on their own systems unplayable. Not supporting Vulkan is just another example of the above.

justsid 1y ago

I would rather Apple actively maintains Metal than halfheartedly support Vulkan the way they supported OpenGL. If you have a relatively good graphics abstraction layer in your engine already, implementing a Metal backend isn't super hard, especially if you already support Vulkan or D3D12. Metal is a lot like diet Vulkan/D3D12, except for a couple of really odd decisions. The hardest part about supporting Apple systems is honestly everything else and no amount of Vulkan drivers is going to help with that.

shmerl 1y ago
Apple aren't some resource lacking entity. They can support Vulkan properly and there is no excuse not to.
- justsid 1y ago
  Sure but in the meantime some of us have to actually keep shipping products and in that world I'd rather see Apple support their own thing that they are at least mildly interested in pushing forward.
  - shmerl 1y ago
    In the end Apple doesn't care about what anyone but Apple needs. So who knows, they might kill Metal tomorrow because they'll think their new NIH will serve their lock-in needs better (especially after Vulkan on Metal will get better through this kind of efforts). Point is they are a very bad industry player damaging things for everyone. They surely don't care about making things better for developers.