5 ms·

Republican's don't need white nationalism, and it undoubtedly hurts them on the whole, which is why it's surprising they continue to let those voices speak for

by ethbr1 1y ago

Republican's don't need white nationalism, and it undoubtedly hurts them on the whole, which is why it's surprising they continue to let those voices speak for them. E.g. it's hard to get more racist than Stephen Miller, but I suppose that's normalized when you're on Jeff Sessions' staff.

rayiner 1y ago
White nationalists are people who dislike Usha Vance because she’s Indian. Stephen Miller is an ordinary nationalist who wants to slow down immigration enough so that everyone assimilates into Anglo-American culture and norms, instead of of changing U.S. culture. Let me ask you this: you acknowledge that India is different from Vermont, right? And you acknowledge that ethnic enclaves of recent Indian immigrants (say in New York), are culturally different from Vermont? Is there any way in your world view for someone to say that they think the culture of Vermont is better, and they oppose immigration that would change the culture and make it more like India (or Latin America)? Put differently, what could a non-racist version of Stephen Miller do while seeking to maintain the Anglo-American character of the U.S.? Or do you think that race and culture are so intertwined that non-racism requires us to accept Vermont becoming more like India or Latin America?
- CyberDildonics 1y ago
  Stephen Miller is an ordinary nationalist who wants to slow down immigration enough so that everyone assimilated into Anglo-American culture and norms, instead of of changing U.S. culture. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/stephen-miller-breitbart-white-supremacist-trump-a9246981.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/stephen-mi... https://www.thedailybeast.com/stephen-miller-is-what-we-thought-he-was-a-racist-a-nativist-and-a-white-supremacist/ https://www.thedailybeast.com/stephen-miller-is-what-we-thou... https://www.vice.com/en/article/stephen-millers-racist-emails-are-an-outrage-even-by-2019-standards/ https://www.vice.com/en/article/stephen-millers-racist-email... https://www.splcenter.org/resources/hatewatch/stephen-millers-affinity-white-nationalism-revealed-leaked-emails/ https://www.splcenter.org/resources/hatewatch/stephen-miller... There are dozens of similar articles.
  - rayiner 1y ago
    Those articles are all sourced from the same SPLC hit piece, and are laundering someone’s accusations of “racism” without defining the term, or engaging in guilt by association. The folks at SPLC are cultural relativists. They think culture is just superficial things like food, and doesn’t contribute to material circumstances. The only reason India or Mexico are poorer and more disorderly, in their view, is oppression from whites. In that worldview, any opposition to immigration can only be based on skin-color “racism.” Is that your view?
    - CyberDildonics 1y ago
      https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/13/us/politics/stephen-miller-white-nationalism.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/13/us/politics/stephen-mille... https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/18/us/politics/stephen-miller-white-nationalism.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/18/us/politics/stephen-mille... https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/after-stephen-miller-s-white-nationalist-views-outed-latinos-ask-n1096071 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/after-stephen-miller-s-w... https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/11/stephen-miller-alarming-emails/602242/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/11/stephen-mi...
      - rayiner 1y ago
        Each of those articles is sourced from the same SPLC hit piece, and SPLC embraces cultural relativism. I’m curious why you won’t answer my question. Does non-racism, in your view, require people to accept immigration that changes America’s culture? Is there a non-racist lane for people who want Vermont or Salt Lake City to remain culturally Anglo-American (regardless of ethnicity)?
        jacquesm 1y ago
        All immigration changes culture. And the United States is probably the best proof of that that you could possibly wish for. Anglo-American culture is a very tiny slice of American culture. Your position is essentially statist: you want the world to stay the way you found it. But the world evolves and it does so on a timescale that that is noticeable on a single human life span. Like that whole groups of people have to sit at the back of the bus (if they're allowed on in the first place), write books on how to survive while driving in certain parts of the country and like that they suddenly have rights. And the countries they were forcibly imported from had cultures noticeably different from the one where the Anglo-American (and Dutch, and German and other countries besides) owners (or so they claimed) people came from. If you want to emigrate to a place that is static then you will quickly find out that you can't, not really. Switzerland has been trying to do this since forever and is failing badly at it, other experiments in the same direction have led to civil wars and ugly offshoots like apartheid. You either accept that any immigration at all will change culture or you will have to drastically reduce your exposure to the world around you to maintain the illusion. Capital loves immigration: it provides for cheap labor. That's the end of your static culture. And good thing too.

by ethbr1 1y ago

rayiner 1y ago

White nationalists are people who dislike Usha Vance because she’s Indian. Stephen Miller is an ordinary nationalist who wants to slow down immigration enough so that everyone assimilates into Anglo-American culture and norms, instead of of changing U.S. culture. Let me ask you this: you acknowledge that India is different from Vermont, right? And you acknowledge that ethnic enclaves of recent Indian immigrants (say in New York), are culturally different from Vermont? Is there any way in your world view for someone to say that they think the culture of Vermont is better, and they oppose immigration that would change the culture and make it more like India (or Latin America)? Put differently, what could a non-racist version of Stephen Miller do while seeking to maintain the Anglo-American character of the U.S.? Or do you think that race and culture are so intertwined that non-racism requires us to accept Vermont becoming more like India or Latin America?

CyberDildonics 1y ago
Stephen Miller is an ordinary nationalist who wants to slow down immigration enough so that everyone assimilated into Anglo-American culture and norms, instead of of changing U.S. culture. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/stephen-miller-breitbart-white-supremacist-trump-a9246981.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/stephen-mi... https://www.thedailybeast.com/stephen-miller-is-what-we-thought-he-was-a-racist-a-nativist-and-a-white-supremacist/ https://www.thedailybeast.com/stephen-miller-is-what-we-thou... https://www.vice.com/en/article/stephen-millers-racist-emails-are-an-outrage-even-by-2019-standards/ https://www.vice.com/en/article/stephen-millers-racist-email... https://www.splcenter.org/resources/hatewatch/stephen-millers-affinity-white-nationalism-revealed-leaked-emails/ https://www.splcenter.org/resources/hatewatch/stephen-miller... There are dozens of similar articles.
- rayiner 1y ago
  Those articles are all sourced from the same SPLC hit piece, and are laundering someone’s accusations of “racism” without defining the term, or engaging in guilt by association. The folks at SPLC are cultural relativists. They think culture is just superficial things like food, and doesn’t contribute to material circumstances. The only reason India or Mexico are poorer and more disorderly, in their view, is oppression from whites. In that worldview, any opposition to immigration can only be based on skin-color “racism.” Is that your view?
  - CyberDildonics 1y ago
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/13/us/politics/stephen-miller-white-nationalism.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/13/us/politics/stephen-mille... https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/18/us/politics/stephen-miller-white-nationalism.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/18/us/politics/stephen-mille... https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/after-stephen-miller-s-white-nationalist-views-outed-latinos-ask-n1096071 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/after-stephen-miller-s-w... https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/11/stephen-miller-alarming-emails/602242/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/11/stephen-mi...
    - rayiner 1y ago
      Each of those articles is sourced from the same SPLC hit piece, and SPLC embraces cultural relativism. I’m curious why you won’t answer my question. Does non-racism, in your view, require people to accept immigration that changes America’s culture? Is there a non-racist lane for people who want Vermont or Salt Lake City to remain culturally Anglo-American (regardless of ethnicity)?
      - jacquesm 1y ago
        All immigration changes culture. And the United States is probably the best proof of that that you could possibly wish for. Anglo-American culture is a very tiny slice of American culture. Your position is essentially statist: you want the world to stay the way you found it. But the world evolves and it does so on a timescale that that is noticeable on a single human life span. Like that whole groups of people have to sit at the back of the bus (if they're allowed on in the first place), write books on how to survive while driving in certain parts of the country and like that they suddenly have rights. And the countries they were forcibly imported from had cultures noticeably different from the one where the Anglo-American (and Dutch, and German and other countries besides) owners (or so they claimed) people came from. If you want to emigrate to a place that is static then you will quickly find out that you can't, not really. Switzerland has been trying to do this since forever and is failing badly at it, other experiments in the same direction have led to civil wars and ugly offshoots like apartheid. You either accept that any immigration at all will change culture or you will have to drastically reduce your exposure to the world around you to maintain the illusion. Capital loves immigration: it provides for cheap labor. That's the end of your static culture. And good thing too.