4 ms·

I hear what you're saying, and agree with large parts of it. Ethnic background shouldn't override individual autonomy. But... > The vast majority of both white

by ethbr1 1y ago

I hear what you're saying, and agree with large parts of it. Ethnic background shouldn't override individual autonomy. But... > The vast majority of both white and “brown” Trump supporters just want to go back to the 1990s where we didn’t “talk about race.” ... there's certainly a chunk of Trump supporters who would like to go back to the 40s and 50s version of US "not talking about race" (or the 1910s for not talking about women). It'd be nice if the reasonable people from both parties could ignore their extremist wings, get to together, and realize they have more in common than different.

nobody9999 1y ago
>... there's certainly a chunk of Trump supporters who would like to go back to the 40s and 50s version of US "not talking about race" (or the 1910s for not talking about women). Actually, it's back to 1868[0] at least that they'd like[1] (rolling back birthright citizenship) to go. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteenth_Amendment_to_the_Un... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_14160 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_14160
rayiner 1y ago
> there's certainly a chunk of Trump supporters who would like to go back to the 40s and 50s version of US "not talking about race" (or the 1910s for not talking about women). This is a relatively small number in comparison to the chunk of Harris supporters who would call color blindness “racist.” In my own experience, “brown” ethno-narcissism and ethnic tribalism is more accepted, and even encouraged, among liberals than white ethno-nationalism is tolerated among conservatives. This is a result of the political incentives of the respective parties. Republicans don’t need white nationalism, they can win when minorities are assimilated into the what the dominant Anglo-American culture (what the left might call “multiracial whiteness”). That’s basically what’s happened in Florida: Hispanics retain their culture in the way Irish and Italian Americans do, but don’t have a strong ethnic identity that is politically motivating.
- ethbr1 1y ago
  Republican's don't need white nationalism, and it undoubtedly hurts them on the whole, which is why it's surprising they continue to let those voices speak for them. E.g. it's hard to get more racist than Stephen Miller, but I suppose that's normalized when you're on Jeff Sessions' staff.
  - rayiner 1y ago
    White nationalists are people who dislike Usha Vance because she’s Indian. Stephen Miller is an ordinary nationalist who wants to slow down immigration enough so that everyone assimilates into Anglo-American culture and norms, instead of of changing U.S. culture. Let me ask you this: you acknowledge that India is different from Vermont, right? And you acknowledge that ethnic enclaves of recent Indian immigrants (say in New York), are culturally different from Vermont? Is there any way in your world view for someone to say that they think the culture of Vermont is better, and they oppose immigration that would change the culture and make it more like India (or Latin America)? Put differently, what could a non-racist version of Stephen Miller do while seeking to maintain the Anglo-American character of the U.S.? Or do you think that race and culture are so intertwined that non-racism requires us to accept Vermont becoming more like India or Latin America?
    - CyberDildonics 1y ago
      Stephen Miller is an ordinary nationalist who wants to slow down immigration enough so that everyone assimilated into Anglo-American culture and norms, instead of of changing U.S. culture. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/stephen-miller-breitbart-white-supremacist-trump-a9246981.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/stephen-mi... https://www.thedailybeast.com/stephen-miller-is-what-we-thought-he-was-a-racist-a-nativist-and-a-white-supremacist/ https://www.thedailybeast.com/stephen-miller-is-what-we-thou... https://www.vice.com/en/article/stephen-millers-racist-emails-are-an-outrage-even-by-2019-standards/ https://www.vice.com/en/article/stephen-millers-racist-email... https://www.splcenter.org/resources/hatewatch/stephen-millers-affinity-white-nationalism-revealed-leaked-emails/ https://www.splcenter.org/resources/hatewatch/stephen-miller... There are dozens of similar articles.

by ethbr1 1y ago

nobody9999 1y ago

>... there's certainly a chunk of Trump supporters who would like to go back to the 40s and 50s version of US "not talking about race" (or the 1910s for not talking about women). Actually, it's back to 1868[0] at least that they'd like[1] (rolling back birthright citizenship) to go. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteenth_Amendment_to_the_Un... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_14160 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_14160

rayiner 1y ago

> there's certainly a chunk of Trump supporters who would like to go back to the 40s and 50s version of US "not talking about race" (or the 1910s for not talking about women). This is a relatively small number in comparison to the chunk of Harris supporters who would call color blindness “racist.” In my own experience, “brown” ethno-narcissism and ethnic tribalism is more accepted, and even encouraged, among liberals than white ethno-nationalism is tolerated among conservatives. This is a result of the political incentives of the respective parties. Republicans don’t need white nationalism, they can win when minorities are assimilated into the what the dominant Anglo-American culture (what the left might call “multiracial whiteness”). That’s basically what’s happened in Florida: Hispanics retain their culture in the way Irish and Italian Americans do, but don’t have a strong ethnic identity that is politically motivating.

ethbr1 1y ago
Republican's don't need white nationalism, and it undoubtedly hurts them on the whole, which is why it's surprising they continue to let those voices speak for them. E.g. it's hard to get more racist than Stephen Miller, but I suppose that's normalized when you're on Jeff Sessions' staff.
- rayiner 1y ago
  White nationalists are people who dislike Usha Vance because she’s Indian. Stephen Miller is an ordinary nationalist who wants to slow down immigration enough so that everyone assimilates into Anglo-American culture and norms, instead of of changing U.S. culture. Let me ask you this: you acknowledge that India is different from Vermont, right? And you acknowledge that ethnic enclaves of recent Indian immigrants (say in New York), are culturally different from Vermont? Is there any way in your world view for someone to say that they think the culture of Vermont is better, and they oppose immigration that would change the culture and make it more like India (or Latin America)? Put differently, what could a non-racist version of Stephen Miller do while seeking to maintain the Anglo-American character of the U.S.? Or do you think that race and culture are so intertwined that non-racism requires us to accept Vermont becoming more like India or Latin America?
  - CyberDildonics 1y ago
    Stephen Miller is an ordinary nationalist who wants to slow down immigration enough so that everyone assimilated into Anglo-American culture and norms, instead of of changing U.S. culture. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/stephen-miller-breitbart-white-supremacist-trump-a9246981.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/stephen-mi... https://www.thedailybeast.com/stephen-miller-is-what-we-thought-he-was-a-racist-a-nativist-and-a-white-supremacist/ https://www.thedailybeast.com/stephen-miller-is-what-we-thou... https://www.vice.com/en/article/stephen-millers-racist-emails-are-an-outrage-even-by-2019-standards/ https://www.vice.com/en/article/stephen-millers-racist-email... https://www.splcenter.org/resources/hatewatch/stephen-millers-affinity-white-nationalism-revealed-leaked-emails/ https://www.splcenter.org/resources/hatewatch/stephen-miller... There are dozens of similar articles.