11 ms·

Is the Bible still ok??? -------------------- Genesis 16:4 – “And he went in unto Hagar, and she conceived…” (Abram and Hagar) Genesis 29:23 – “…and he went

• bigfishrunning 1y ago
  I don't think the bible is in public school libraries -- if it is (as historical literature), it's probably unconstitutional to teach from it or promote it.
  • jjallen 1y ago
    The Ten Commandments are required to be posted on every public school wall in Texas. You would have guessed that that is also unconstitutional
    • SoftTalker 1y ago
      They are deemed to be secular, like Christmas.
      • dylan604 1y ago
        The ten commandments are definitely not secular, but it is funny how up until the 1950s christmas was deemed a pagan religious holiday and was even listed this way in encyclopedias from that time. Then suddenly, it was listed as a christian holiday, except there is no reference about it in the bible with new testament references specifying to not keep that holiday. How these can be deemed the same is beyond rational thinking.
        • dragonwriter 1y ago
          > but it is funny how up until the 1950s christmas was deemed a pagan religious holiday and was even listed this way in encyclopedias from that time Deemed by whom and in what encyclopedias? There are certainly religious groups who are historically recent offshoots of Western Christianity that viewed it that way in the 1950s, but the same groups do so today, nothing substantial has changed on that front since the 1950s. For the rest of Christianity, well, it was adopted as a Christian feast in the 4th century and has been treated as one since pretty consistently by most of Christianity. Certainly so in the largest branches of Christian in the US in the 1950s, which constituted between them the great majority of the population.
          • dylan604 1y ago
            I had a copy of Britannica from the 50s that had this. It was picked up in one of those Books By The Yard for cheap.
        • yencabulator 1y ago
          Christian leaders realized they're losing a fight against folk traditions and went into damage control mode. Other "Christian" special dates were similarly specifically picked to match an older special date.
      • Levitz 1y ago
        What's the secular reading of "You shall have no other gods before me" ? What? I can understand that Christmas has mutated into a family reunion, a time for gathering with loved ones etc, even Santa Claus, name and all, has turned into the figure that brings presents, but even if I can understand "You shall not murder" as a secular rule, the ten commandments as a whole are really hard to take as such no?
        • SoftTalker 1y ago
          They are common to all Abrahamic religions, in spirit if not word-for-word. Hinduism also has its 5 principles and 10 disciplines which are broadly similar. Perhaps "secular" is not the best description, but for anyone faithful to any of the major religions, these are going to be broadly shared principles, in addition to being the basis for most of our laws and social norms regarding individual behavior (don't kill, don't steal, etc.) It's kind of like having "In God We Trust" printed on our currency. It's not a specific (i.e. Christian) God, at least that is the justification, and it's not seen as "respecting an establishment of religion" in the Constitutional sense.
          • yencabulator 1y ago
            Even if you can find multiple religions that you claim agree on something that does *not* make that thing secular. > Secularity [...] is the state of being unrelated to, or neutral in regard to, religion.
      • yencabulator 1y ago
        This is one of the stupidest things I've read all year, and I fear that we're still only in August. I really have no words. They're by definition a set of religious directives from a claimed god.
  • epistasis 1y ago
    The Bible is commonly in public schools, as are other religious books. Having a book available does not mean promoting it or establishing it as a religion.
  • jameshart 1y ago
    I would be shocked if any library didn’t have bibles in its collection. It’s crucial reference material.
  • linotype 1y ago
    > it's probably unconstitutional to teach from it or promote it https://oklahoma.gov/education/newsroom/2025/march/despite-controversy-oklahoma-becomes-the-first-state-to-initiate-bibles-back-in-school-campaign.html https://oklahoma.gov/education/newsroom/2025/march/despite-c... The Constitution only applies if there are people able and willing to enforce it.
    • jwally 1y ago
      This is the key to everything in the US right now I feel. Laws exist, but they're not being enforced or are difficult to enforce legally. This lets people at the top do whatever now since the eventual consequences (if any) are way out in the future and punitive to the gains they get now. Its like being a bank robber with a Ferrari when the cops are stuck using horse-and-buggies.
      • komali2 1y ago
        > This is the key to everything in the US right now I feel. Laws exist, but they're not being enforced or are difficult to enforce legally. My hope is that this situation wakes Americans up to the fact that laws were always this way. I'm hoping this breaks the myth of the law as a fair arbiter of justice. In reality the legal system of the USA is enforced at the whim of incredibly biased cops, judges, and politicians. I really think a day in a county courthouse should be a requirement for all American kids so they can see just how arbitrarily sentencing is applied or how whether someone ends up in trial at all can hinge on whether a judge agrees or disagrees there was probable cause, and the judge will do like 20 of these hearings one after another. Not to mention the fact that any black American can tell you that there's two justice systems in the USA: the one for white people, and the one for everyone else. Hence why so many black kids can tell you about when their parents gave them "The Talk," and no, it's not the birds and bees one, it's the one about how your white friends can get up to mischief that you can't and there's nothing you can do about it so don't bother getting mad about it, just keep your head down and never backtalk the cops.
        • chrisco255 1y ago
  • bryanlarsen 1y ago
    The bible is a crucial piece of literature reference. Pretty much every literary piece written before the middle of the 20th century assumed that their reader was also intimately familiar with the bible. For example, a writer could call a woman a "Jezebel" without any expository context, assuming that the reader would know what that meant. Thus the bible should be in every high school and higher education library.
    • graemep 1y ago
      It should be commonly taught as a work of literature. Ideally the KJV which has largely fallen out of favour (except with certain groups) as a religious translation because more recent translations are so much better (advances in scholarship, more discoveries of early manuscripts...) but which is beautiful as a work.
      • gorgoiler 1y ago
        It’s a sign of the times that the powers that be might make KJV, a labour of love and the apple of the author’s eye, come forth to fight the good fight and rake in some filthy lucre! By the skin of their teeth, these wolves in sheep’s clothing’s days must be numbered, but if they keep on the straight and narrow, live by the sword, and go the extra mile, then lo and behold the first shall be last and every salt of the earth will be made a scapegoat from here to the ends of the earth! after KJV, possibly with thanks to Bill (Shakespeare) also.
    • nemomarx 1y ago
      any Western literary piece. for translated novels from China you might want some other foundational texts on hand, or the Quran to complement Persian literature, or etc But I don't see any reason a library can't have various books from antiquity, for reference at least. Probably multiple editions or translations of each too.
    • jeroenhd 1y ago
      TIL "Jezebel" is a reference to the bible. Without the bible, people still have dictionaries if they don't understand words or references. Or they could use Google. I don't see why some books would be "too crucial" not to ban in a law banning books intended to protect kids. If anything, I find it easier to defend a ban on religious books in (public) schools.
  • asadotzler 1y ago
    You thought wrong. Visit a library sometime to see otherwise. Various Bibles can be found in many public libraries.
  • jccalhoun 1y ago
    It was totally in my library when I was in high school in the late 80s but I was in a small school in the midwest.
  • projektfu 1y ago
    My public school library had several Bible versions, a couple Quran versions, and probably some Buddhist and Hindu texts of interest, though I didn't look for them. Why shouldn't they have these in the library?
  • dylan604 1y ago
    You mean like the new Texas state law going into effect Sept 1 that says each class room must display the ten commandments and specifies the minimum size of the display would be unconstitutional. Also, unconstitutional by what definition? I'm guessing the current SCOTUS would not agree with your assessment.
  • zeroonetwothree 1y ago
    Surely not, while it would be unconstitutional to present it as the correct religious view it is totally fine to teach it as part of a general literary overview. It’s been far too important to Western literature to omit entirely.
• deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
• danpelota 1y ago
  Ezekiel 23:20 - "There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses."
  • kjkjadksj 1y ago
    Now that would make a great Bible verse bumper sticker
• jwally 1y ago
  from the article: >Since its passage in 2023, Florida schools have removed hundreds of books under House Bill 1069 (HB 1069). HB 1069 required that school librarians remove materials from their collections that contain “sexual content,” regardless of the value of the book.
  • yencabulator 1y ago
    Did they remove the Christian bibles too?
• krapp 1y ago
  Lol, of course the Bible is always OK, but you can find much worse. And they made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose. And it came to pass on the morrow, that the firstborn said unto the younger, Behold, I lay yesternight with my father: let us make him drink wine this night also; and go thou in, and lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father. And they made their father drink wine that night also: and the younger arose, and lay with him; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose. Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father. – Genesis 19:33–36. And when she had brought them unto him to eat, he took hold of her, and said unto her, Come lie with me, my sister. And she answered him, Nay, my brother, do not force me; for no such thing ought to be done in Israel: do not thou this folly. And I, whither shall I cause my shame to go? and as for thee, thou shalt be as one of the fools in Israel. Now therefore, I pray thee, speak unto the king; for he will not withhold me from thee. Howbeit he would not hearken unto her voice: but, being stronger than she, forced her, and lay with her. – 2 Samuel 13:11–14 Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished. - Isaiah 13:16. And when her sister Aholibah saw this, she was more corrupt in her inordinate love than she, and in her whoredoms more than her sister in her whoredoms. She doted upon the Assyrians her neighbours, captains and rulers clothed most gorgeously, horsemen riding upon horses, all of them desirable young men. Then I saw that she was defiled, that they took both one way, And that she increased her whoredoms: for when she saw men pourtrayed upon the wall, the images of the Chaldeans pourtrayed with vermilion, Girded with girdles upon their loins, exceeding in dyed attire upon their heads, all of them princes to look to, after the manner of the Babylonians of Chaldea, the land of their nativity: And as soon as she saw them with her eyes, she doted upon them, and sent messengers unto them into Chaldea. And the Babylonians came to her into the bed of love, and they defiled her with their whoredom, and she was polluted with them, and her mind was alienated from them. So she discovered her whoredoms, and discovered her nakedness: then my mind was alienated from her, like as my mind was alienated from her sister. Yet she multiplied her whoredoms, in calling to remembrance the days of her youth, wherein she had played the harlot in the land of Egypt. For she doted upon their paramours, whose flesh is as the flesh of asses, and whose issue is like the issue of horses. Thus thou calledst to remembrance the lewdness of thy youth, in bruising thy teats by the Egyptians for the paps of thy youth. - Ezekiel 23:11-21 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves. – Numbers 31:18 It's OK because there's no gay stuff. Just good old fashioned heterosexual rape and incest, as God intended.
• acephal 1y ago
  Don't forget the story in Judges where a Hebrew assasin stabs an obese Canaanite king in the gut and he shits himself but his guards outside the room were already used to him shitting himself so ignored the smell.
  • jwally 1y ago
    Judges 19–21. The account of the Levite and his concubine: A Levite from the hill country of Ephraim goes to retrieve his concubine from her father’s house in Bethlehem. On their return journey, they stop for the night in Gibeah, a Benjamite town. The townsmen surround the house, demanding to “know” the man (sexual violence implied, similar to Genesis 19 with Lot). The host refuses and offers his own virgin daughter and the Levite’s concubine instead. The mob abuses the concubine all night; she collapses at the doorway and dies by morning. The Levite tells her to get up, sees she’s dead, then cuts her body into twelve pieces and sends them throughout Israel to rally the tribes against Benjamin.
    • acephal 1y ago
      Yes, the story I'm referring to also features veiled homosexuality (the King is only alone with the assassin cause he thinks he's gonna fuck him)
• dylan604 1y ago
  These are okay, because it's not explicit and in your face. "unto her" is such outdated language that it is rather tame by modern standards. Actual reasoning I've been told by people that support banning of books. Also, anytime you are to the point of asking if the words from the bible are 'ok', you've already lost the argument with the person you are talking to. The bible is infallible, so of course it is okay. You cannot use it as evidence against their point. Ever. It is a waste of breath on your part.
• rsynnott 1y ago
  Oh, that's just the tame stuff. Ezekiel 23:20: "There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses." (Somehow I find the need to involve two different equines particularly off-putting.)
• glitchc 1y ago
  Kite Runner and the Handmaids Tale talk about child sexual abuse. I'm not condoning the ban, just pointing out that these two are not the same thing. Worth adding: Making the Bible available to common folk was also hotly contested at the time. The Puritans lost that fight and I suspect they will eventually lose this one too.
• rurp 1y ago
  Don't forget Ezekiel 23:20! "There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses." The bible doesn't always use archaic language or euphemisms.