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The defence budget is America's job program. Very little of the money that is defense spending ends up in defense shareholder pockets. The overwhemling vast maj

The defence budget is America's job program. Very little of the money that is defense spending ends up in defense shareholder pockets. The overwhemling vast majority goes to propping up America's (now) anemic industrial base. Remember that virtually all defense dollars are constrained to only be spent on American made things and services. And most of money sent to the big contractors goes to the gazillion sub-contractors they use. This is why the defense budget is never cut. By anyone red or blue. It's a funnel of money that can be pointed at any location in the US and give a bunch of decent full benefits jobs.

atomicnumber3 1y ago
It is also kind of handy that we get aircraft carriers out of it too. Mind you, I'm a socialist, so like, I personally wish we could move a bunch of the "jobs program" stuff over so that instead of carriers, we get well-educated, fed, and cared-for children and good medical care for all, and stuff like that. And that if we want a certain number of aircraft carriers, we should just try to actually get that many carriers on purpose for the cost that building the carriers entails. Without also trying to do 10 million other things on top of it to the point that the carrier output is a side-effect. But like, it's probably better than no carriers at all, which is how it's going for lots of other countries. So I guess that's something to hold on to.
mbfg 1y ago
I believe less than a quarter of the defense budget is for salaries and compensations.
- Aurornis 1y ago
  The companies that build and supply things for the military have to pay salaries and compensation, too.
- Yokolos 1y ago
  https://usafacts.org/answers/how-much-does-the-us-spend-on-defense/country/united-states/ https://usafacts.org/answers/how-much-does-the-us-spend-on-d... 22%. But operations also includes civilian salaries and procurement naturally includes the labor required to produce what was procured. I would assume that R&D also includes research grants and salaries.
  - OrvalWintermute 1y ago
    the current number is around 12.5% of the federal budget (2025 Administration budget, discretionary & non-discretionary).
- gruez 1y ago
  Presumably that's only for DoD employees and people serving in the armed forces? It doesn't include defense contractor salaries.
- Workaccount2 1y ago
  That is only for people in the DoD. Almost nothing that the DoD uses is made by the DoD. It's pretty much all 3rd party contractors, and those contractors handle paying their employees.
- abtinf 1y ago
  All spending everywhere is essentially “salaries and compensation”. It’s not like you get to the end of the supply chain and suddenly are paying God. Money always goes to people.
  - estearum 1y ago
    Well, really at rock bottom all payments go into land rent.
    - lukas099 1y ago
      Sounds interesting but I'm having a hard time wrapping my mind around that. Would you care to elaborate?
  - frankbreetz 1y ago
    Profit would fall into an entirely different category then "salaries and compensation"
    - abtinf 1y ago
      Certainly. So would materials expenses and theft and insurance and so forth. But the confusion is that somehow, money not spent on “salaries and compensation” doesn’t go to people. All of it goes to people. Defense spending isn’t buying “defense”, it’s buying time and effort for people to focus on and produce defense related things. This is the root of the original post that defense spending is a jobs program.
      - ffsm8 1y ago
        > All of it goes to people That's just straight up false. It goes to legal entities, some of which are people. Companies aren't people mate, and neither are investment funds. The money might still be managed by people, but that cannot be called salary, even if you're stretching the definition.
        1y ago
- micromacrofoot 1y ago
  they're not burning the money, it all goes into someone's pocket
landtuna 1y ago
The US defense budget, as a percentage of GDP, has been cut a huge amount! https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/ms.mil.xpnd.gd.zs?locations=us https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/ms.mil.xpnd.gd.zs?locat... If you don't think it makes sense to scale it by GDP (though I do), then in real terms it has gone through cycles since 1965, with definite periods of decrease, even though the overall trend is upward: https://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/edgraph.html https://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/edgraph.html

atomicnumber3 1y ago

It is also kind of handy that we get aircraft carriers out of it too. Mind you, I'm a socialist, so like, I personally wish we could move a bunch of the "jobs program" stuff over so that instead of carriers, we get well-educated, fed, and cared-for children and good medical care for all, and stuff like that. And that if we want a certain number of aircraft carriers, we should just try to actually get that many carriers on purpose for the cost that building the carriers entails. Without also trying to do 10 million other things on top of it to the point that the carrier output is a side-effect. But like, it's probably better than no carriers at all, which is how it's going for lots of other countries. So I guess that's something to hold on to.

mbfg 1y ago

I believe less than a quarter of the defense budget is for salaries and compensations.

Aurornis 1y ago
The companies that build and supply things for the military have to pay salaries and compensation, too.
Yokolos 1y ago
https://usafacts.org/answers/how-much-does-the-us-spend-on-defense/country/united-states/ https://usafacts.org/answers/how-much-does-the-us-spend-on-d... 22%. But operations also includes civilian salaries and procurement naturally includes the labor required to produce what was procured. I would assume that R&D also includes research grants and salaries.
- OrvalWintermute 1y ago
  the current number is around 12.5% of the federal budget (2025 Administration budget, discretionary & non-discretionary).
gruez 1y ago
Presumably that's only for DoD employees and people serving in the armed forces? It doesn't include defense contractor salaries.
Workaccount2 1y ago
That is only for people in the DoD. Almost nothing that the DoD uses is made by the DoD. It's pretty much all 3rd party contractors, and those contractors handle paying their employees.
abtinf 1y ago
All spending everywhere is essentially “salaries and compensation”. It’s not like you get to the end of the supply chain and suddenly are paying God. Money always goes to people.
- estearum 1y ago
  Well, really at rock bottom all payments go into land rent.
  - lukas099 1y ago
    Sounds interesting but I'm having a hard time wrapping my mind around that. Would you care to elaborate?
- frankbreetz 1y ago
  Profit would fall into an entirely different category then "salaries and compensation"
  - abtinf 1y ago
    Certainly. So would materials expenses and theft and insurance and so forth. But the confusion is that somehow, money not spent on “salaries and compensation” doesn’t go to people. All of it goes to people. Defense spending isn’t buying “defense”, it’s buying time and effort for people to focus on and produce defense related things. This is the root of the original post that defense spending is a jobs program.
    - ffsm8 1y ago
      > All of it goes to people That's just straight up false. It goes to legal entities, some of which are people. Companies aren't people mate, and neither are investment funds. The money might still be managed by people, but that cannot be called salary, even if you're stretching the definition.
      - 1y ago
micromacrofoot 1y ago
they're not burning the money, it all goes into someone's pocket

landtuna 1y ago

The US defense budget, as a percentage of GDP, has been cut a huge amount! https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/ms.mil.xpnd.gd.zs?locations=us https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/ms.mil.xpnd.gd.zs?locat... If you don't think it makes sense to scale it by GDP (though I do), then in real terms it has gone through cycles since 1965, with definite periods of decrease, even though the overall trend is upward: https://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/edgraph.html https://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/edgraph.html