5 ms·

It isn't - using cards, with fees, is cheaper than cash. I realized that when shops started to refuse cash (even if cash is legal tender and they, by law, _have

by Tor3 1y ago

It isn't - using cards, with fees, is cheaper than cash. I realized that when shops started to refuse cash (even if cash is legal tender and they, by law, _have_ to accept cash). The argument? Cash is too expensive.

Imustaskforhelp 1y ago
how is cash too expensive?? huh?
- Tor3 1y ago
  _Handling_ cash is expensive. I never thought of that until my SO started working in a shop. To and from the bank, with stacks of coins and notes.. and there's presumably much more than that for larger firms. In general I rely my statement on what merchants themselves are saying. Newspapers are writing interviews with merchants who (illegally) have stopped accepting cash, even though it's legal tender. "It's too expensive. It reduces our bottom line." That kind of thing. When I look around I see "Cards only" a lot of places.
  - ceejayoz 1y ago
    > Newspapers are writing interviews with merchants who (illegally) have stopped accepting cash, even though it's legal tender. That's legal. https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12772.htm https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12772.htm Legal tender applies only to debt/creditor relationships.
    - Tor3 1y ago
      The USA is not all the world. The US rules don't apply in other countries. Rules differ. In many countries _businesses_ have to accept legal tender. Including in my own. That's why it's such a big deal when businesses actually still refuse cash.
      - ceejayoz 1y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_tender https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_tender > Legal tender is a form of money that courts of law are required to recognize as satisfactory payment in court for any monetary debt. A country may separately require businesses to accept legal tender, if they feel like it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_tender#Status_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_tender#Status_by_country would appear to indicate this distinction is very common in the developed world.
- ubercow13 1y ago
  Of course cash is expensive, you have to handle it, count it, transport it. Haven't you ever seen those heavily armoured cash delivery vehicles? I mean just think how inefficient cash obviously is in every aspect of how it works compared to modern tech.
- SJC_Hacker 1y ago
  Time spent totaling it, transporting it to from bank Having to buy a register / point of sale which can handle it Hoping you employees don’t pocket a few bills here and there Hoping you don’t get robbed
Imustaskforhelp 1y ago
They only use cards because credit cards can allow them to get sales from people who wouldn't have been able to buy the product through debit itself, but they can buy it from credit.., so they are okay with eating 1-2% of costs in the fact that sale might happen and the companies will get 0.5-1% of it to you back as rewards (hopefully) and so there is incentive to buy using credit card for rewards but they might also give incentives of 1-2% if you buy through cash since they aren't eating that 1-2% cost. And this whole network has now been built in such a way that now even debit costs the same charge just as network fees Open sourcing this might be a step in good faith and I mean, we have UPI where I live and it has 0 fees and trust me its crazy good. I personally wish that either everybody in the world could use UPI or pixis from brazil.
- Tor3 1y ago
  The argument doesn't hold - if cards were only about getting sales which they otherwise wouldn't get - and the part about "getting sales which they otherwise wouldn't get", is true enough - then there's no reason to refuse cash payments. That's additional sales, right? But the fact is that more and more shops refuse cash payments entirely. "Pay by card or go somewhere else".
  - Imustaskforhelp 1y ago
    I can't comment on this fact of more and more shops refusing for cash payments entirely as I personally have NEVER seen that? Provide me an article or some proof to this fact for me to comment further as currently we are at an disagreement on this thing which I hope we can turn into meaningful discussion.
    - Tor3 1y ago
      Well.. just a quick search (as I won't be talking a walk and photograph all the "cards only" signs I now see in so many places): https://www.theguardian.com/money/2025/mar/16/uk-high-street-chains-restaurants-cash-payments https://www.theguardian.com/money/2025/mar/16/uk-high-street... https://www.dnb.nl/en/general-news/news-2023/some-retail-sectors-refuse-cash-payments-too-often/ https://www.dnb.nl/en/general-news/news-2023/some-retail-sec... https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c20gevkx8gyo https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c20gevkx8gyo https://www.aarp.org/money/personal-finance/no-cash-accepted-trend/ https://www.aarp.org/money/personal-finance/no-cash-accepted... https://educaloi.qc.ca/en/legal-news/do-you-have-the-right-to-pay-in-cash/ https://educaloi.qc.ca/en/legal-news/do-you-have-the-right-t... https://www.riksbank.se/en-gb/payments--cash/payments-in-sweden/payments-report-2025/trends-on-the-payments-market/many-small-retail-businesses-have-stopped-accepting-cash-/cash-acceptance-differs-widely-between-sectors/ https://www.riksbank.se/en-gb/payments--cash/payments-in-swe...
heavensteeth 1y ago
> even if cash is legal tender and they, by law, _have_ to accept cash this is not true as it is not what "legal tender" means. Legal tender is something that the government must accept as payment, not private enterprise. > Businesses don’t have to accept cash.[0] > There is no federal statute mandating that a private business, a person, or an organization must accept currency or coins as payment for goods or services.[1] [0]: https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/buying-products-and-services/payment-methods https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/buying-products-and-servic... [1] https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12772.htm https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12772.htm
- Tor3 1y ago
  That depends on the country. There are many countries (including my own) where any business must accept certain parts of the cash payment system (around here a taxi doesn't have to accept the highest-value bank note, but the rest cannot be refused). And shops, of course. That's why newspapers bother to write articles about it.
- SJC_Hacker 1y ago
  They have to accept cash, huh? * Cash Payment Method Will No Longer Be Accepted A Notice by the Patent and Trademark Office on 10/03/2017* https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2017/10/03/2017-21194/cash-payment-method-will-no-longer-be-accepted https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2017/10/03/2017-21...
- wat10000 1y ago
  Note that legal tender does apply to private entities when it comes to paying debts, at least in the US. Creditors must accept legal tender, or give up claim to the debt. It’s true that private businesses can set pretty much any payment terms they want for a transaction that hasn’t yet taken place. But the moment you move to a situation where you owe money, they do have to accept cash.
- sneak 1y ago
  They don’t have to accept cash in advance. They do have to accept cash for debts, such as when you have already eaten the meal.

by Tor3 1y ago

Imustaskforhelp 1y ago

how is cash too expensive?? huh?

Tor3 1y ago
_Handling_ cash is expensive. I never thought of that until my SO started working in a shop. To and from the bank, with stacks of coins and notes.. and there's presumably much more than that for larger firms. In general I rely my statement on what merchants themselves are saying. Newspapers are writing interviews with merchants who (illegally) have stopped accepting cash, even though it's legal tender. "It's too expensive. It reduces our bottom line." That kind of thing. When I look around I see "Cards only" a lot of places.
- ceejayoz 1y ago
  > Newspapers are writing interviews with merchants who (illegally) have stopped accepting cash, even though it's legal tender. That's legal. https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12772.htm https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12772.htm Legal tender applies only to debt/creditor relationships.
  - Tor3 1y ago
    The USA is not all the world. The US rules don't apply in other countries. Rules differ. In many countries _businesses_ have to accept legal tender. Including in my own. That's why it's such a big deal when businesses actually still refuse cash.
    - ceejayoz 1y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_tender https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_tender > Legal tender is a form of money that courts of law are required to recognize as satisfactory payment in court for any monetary debt. A country may separately require businesses to accept legal tender, if they feel like it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_tender#Status_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_tender#Status_by_country would appear to indicate this distinction is very common in the developed world.
ubercow13 1y ago
Of course cash is expensive, you have to handle it, count it, transport it. Haven't you ever seen those heavily armoured cash delivery vehicles? I mean just think how inefficient cash obviously is in every aspect of how it works compared to modern tech.
SJC_Hacker 1y ago
Time spent totaling it, transporting it to from bank Having to buy a register / point of sale which can handle it Hoping you employees don’t pocket a few bills here and there Hoping you don’t get robbed

Imustaskforhelp 1y ago

They only use cards because credit cards can allow them to get sales from people who wouldn't have been able to buy the product through debit itself, but they can buy it from credit.., so they are okay with eating 1-2% of costs in the fact that sale might happen and the companies will get 0.5-1% of it to you back as rewards (hopefully) and so there is incentive to buy using credit card for rewards but they might also give incentives of 1-2% if you buy through cash since they aren't eating that 1-2% cost. And this whole network has now been built in such a way that now even debit costs the same charge just as network fees Open sourcing this might be a step in good faith and I mean, we have UPI where I live and it has 0 fees and trust me its crazy good. I personally wish that either everybody in the world could use UPI or pixis from brazil.

Tor3 1y ago
The argument doesn't hold - if cards were only about getting sales which they otherwise wouldn't get - and the part about "getting sales which they otherwise wouldn't get", is true enough - then there's no reason to refuse cash payments. That's additional sales, right? But the fact is that more and more shops refuse cash payments entirely. "Pay by card or go somewhere else".
- Imustaskforhelp 1y ago
  I can't comment on this fact of more and more shops refusing for cash payments entirely as I personally have NEVER seen that? Provide me an article or some proof to this fact for me to comment further as currently we are at an disagreement on this thing which I hope we can turn into meaningful discussion.
  - Tor3 1y ago
    Well.. just a quick search (as I won't be talking a walk and photograph all the "cards only" signs I now see in so many places): https://www.theguardian.com/money/2025/mar/16/uk-high-street-chains-restaurants-cash-payments https://www.theguardian.com/money/2025/mar/16/uk-high-street... https://www.dnb.nl/en/general-news/news-2023/some-retail-sectors-refuse-cash-payments-too-often/ https://www.dnb.nl/en/general-news/news-2023/some-retail-sec... https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c20gevkx8gyo https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c20gevkx8gyo https://www.aarp.org/money/personal-finance/no-cash-accepted-trend/ https://www.aarp.org/money/personal-finance/no-cash-accepted... https://educaloi.qc.ca/en/legal-news/do-you-have-the-right-to-pay-in-cash/ https://educaloi.qc.ca/en/legal-news/do-you-have-the-right-t... https://www.riksbank.se/en-gb/payments--cash/payments-in-sweden/payments-report-2025/trends-on-the-payments-market/many-small-retail-businesses-have-stopped-accepting-cash-/cash-acceptance-differs-widely-between-sectors/ https://www.riksbank.se/en-gb/payments--cash/payments-in-swe...

heavensteeth 1y ago

> even if cash is legal tender and they, by law, _have_ to accept cash this is not true as it is not what "legal tender" means. Legal tender is something that the government must accept as payment, not private enterprise. > Businesses don’t have to accept cash.[0] > There is no federal statute mandating that a private business, a person, or an organization must accept currency or coins as payment for goods or services.[1] [0]: https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/buying-products-and-services/payment-methods https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/buying-products-and-servic... [1] https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12772.htm https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12772.htm

Tor3 1y ago
That depends on the country. There are many countries (including my own) where any business must accept certain parts of the cash payment system (around here a taxi doesn't have to accept the highest-value bank note, but the rest cannot be refused). And shops, of course. That's why newspapers bother to write articles about it.
SJC_Hacker 1y ago
They have to accept cash, huh? * Cash Payment Method Will No Longer Be Accepted A Notice by the Patent and Trademark Office on 10/03/2017* https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2017/10/03/2017-21194/cash-payment-method-will-no-longer-be-accepted https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2017/10/03/2017-21...
wat10000 1y ago
Note that legal tender does apply to private entities when it comes to paying debts, at least in the US. Creditors must accept legal tender, or give up claim to the debt. It’s true that private businesses can set pretty much any payment terms they want for a transaction that hasn’t yet taken place. But the moment you move to a situation where you owe money, they do have to accept cash.
sneak 1y ago
They don’t have to accept cash in advance. They do have to accept cash for debts, such as when you have already eaten the meal.