3 ms·

Does that seem like a real solution to you? That it's ok to represent a never-functional operation as one that might maybe work? ...because it could work of you

by nilamo 1y ago

Does that seem like a real solution to you? That it's ok to represent a never-functional operation as one that might maybe work? ...because it could work of you jump through a bunch of undocumented hoops? It's so wild to me that so many people are apparently against making a user-friendly update. The whole thing seems very against pep8 (its surprising, complicated, non-specific, etc)

woodruffw 1y ago
I don't know what to tell you; I just gave an example of it being functional for a subset of users, who don't deserve to be broken just because it's non-functional on PyPI. Nobody wants anything to be user-unfriendly. You're taking a very small view into Python packaging and extending it to motives, when resources (not even financial ones) are the primary challenge.
- fragmede 1y ago
  Is code to detect when the user is not in that subset and say that it doesn't work really really hard for some non-obvious reason? If the default case for the vast majority of users doesn't work, it doesn't seem like printing a more useful error message to them should be that hard.
  - woodruffw 1y ago
    > it doesn't seem like printing a more useful error message to them should be that hard. I think the existing error message is useful: $ pip search foo ERROR: XMLRPC request failed [code: -32500] RuntimeError: PyPI no longer supports 'pip search' (or XML-RPC search). Please use https://pypi.org/search (via a browser) instead. See https://warehouse.pypa.io/api-reference/xml-rpc.html#deprecated-methods for more information. It says (1) what failed, (2) why it failed, and (3) links to a replacement, and (4) links to a deprecation explanation. That last link could maybe then link back to the pip issue or include some more context, but it's a far cry from being not helpful.
    - nilamo 1y ago
      That is a nicer message than I remember. I don't have an issue with that. It let's you know it doesn't work, that it will never work, and provides links to an alternative and more information. It either used to do fewer of those, or my memory is Swiss cheese, but I remember needing to search for the why's and alternatives.
      - woodruffw 1y ago
        There was a period when the error was a stack trace. But that was pretty brief, and happened before PyPI moved more "officially" towards not supporting the search API. I think part of the confusion here (which is reasonable IMO) is that pip has a huge version tail, and so people report error messages and behaviors that have been fixed for years. This is one of the challenges that I think gets under-appreciated about pip's maintenance.

by nilamo 1y ago

woodruffw 1y ago

I don't know what to tell you; I just gave an example of it being functional for a subset of users, who don't deserve to be broken just because it's non-functional on PyPI. Nobody wants anything to be user-unfriendly. You're taking a very small view into Python packaging and extending it to motives, when resources (not even financial ones) are the primary challenge.

fragmede 1y ago
Is code to detect when the user is not in that subset and say that it doesn't work really really hard for some non-obvious reason? If the default case for the vast majority of users doesn't work, it doesn't seem like printing a more useful error message to them should be that hard.
- woodruffw 1y ago
  > it doesn't seem like printing a more useful error message to them should be that hard. I think the existing error message is useful: $ pip search foo ERROR: XMLRPC request failed [code: -32500] RuntimeError: PyPI no longer supports 'pip search' (or XML-RPC search). Please use https://pypi.org/search (via a browser) instead. See https://warehouse.pypa.io/api-reference/xml-rpc.html#deprecated-methods for more information. It says (1) what failed, (2) why it failed, and (3) links to a replacement, and (4) links to a deprecation explanation. That last link could maybe then link back to the pip issue or include some more context, but it's a far cry from being not helpful.
  - nilamo 1y ago
    That is a nicer message than I remember. I don't have an issue with that. It let's you know it doesn't work, that it will never work, and provides links to an alternative and more information. It either used to do fewer of those, or my memory is Swiss cheese, but I remember needing to search for the why's and alternatives.
    - woodruffw 1y ago
      There was a period when the error was a stack trace. But that was pretty brief, and happened before PyPI moved more "officially" towards not supporting the search API. I think part of the confusion here (which is reasonable IMO) is that pip has a huge version tail, and so people report error messages and behaviors that have been fixed for years. This is one of the challenges that I think gets under-appreciated about pip's maintenance.