5 ms·
Good. It's difficult to imagine a worse use case for LLMs.
by lukev 1y ago
Good. It's difficult to imagine a worse use case for LLMs.
- create-username 1y agoYes, there is. AI assisted homemade neurosurgery
- Tetraslam 1y ago:( but what if i wanna fine-tune my brain weights
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- creshal 1y agoLobotomy is sadly no longer available
- filoeleven 1y agoHow about enthusiastic trepanation?
- kirubakaran 1y agoIf Travis Kalanick can do vibe research at the bleeding edge of quantum physics[1], I don't see why one can't do vibe brain surgery. It isn't really rocket science, is it? [2] [1] https://futurism.com/former-ceo-uber-ai https://futurism.com/former-ceo-uber-ai [2] If you need /s here to be sure, perhaps it's time for some introspection
- perlgeek 1y agoJust using an LLM as is for therapy, maybe with an extra prompt, is a terrible idea. On the other hand, I could image some more narrow uses where an LLM could help. For example, in Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, there are different methods that are pretty prescriptive, like identifying cognitive distortions in negative thoughts. It's not too hard to imagine an app where you enter a negative thought on your own and exercise finding distortions in it, and a specifically trained LLM helps you find more distortions, or offer clearer/more convincing versions of thoughts that you entered yourself. I don't have a WaPo subscription, so I cannot tell which of these two very different things have been banned.
- delecti 1y agoLLMs would be just as terrible at that usecase as any other kind of therapy. They don't have logic, and can't determine a logical thought from an illogical one. They tend to be overly agreeable, so they might just reinforce existing negative thoughts. It would still need a therapist to set you on the right track for independent work, and has huge disadvantages compared to the current state-of-the-art, a paper worksheet that you fill out with a pen.
- tejohnso 1y agoThey don't "have" logic just like they don't "have" charisma? I'm not sure what you mean. LLMs can simulate having both. ChatGPT can tell me that my assertion is a non sequitur - my conclusion doesn't logically follow from the premise.
- ceejayoz 1y agoPsychopaths can simulate empathy, but lack it.
- AlecSchueler 1y agoPsychopaths also tend to eat lunch, but what's your point?
- ceejayoz 1y agoThe point is simulating something isn't the same as having something.
- AlecSchueler 1y agoWell yes, that's a tautology. But is a simulation demonstrably less effective?
- 1y ago
- erikig 1y agoAI ≠ LLMs
- hinkley 1y agoEspecially given the other conversation that happened this morning. The more you tell an AI not to obsess about a thing, the more they obsess about it. So trying to make a model that will never tell people to self harm is futile. Though maybe we are just doing in wrong, and the self-filtering should be external filtering - one model to censor results that do not fit, and one to generate results with lighter self-censorship.
- jacobsenscott 1y agoIt's already happening, a lot. I don't think anyone is claiming an llm is a therapist, but people use chatgpt for therapy every day. As far as I know no LLM company is taking any steps to prevent this - but they could, and should be forced to. It must be a goldmine of personal information. I can't imagine some therapists, especially remote only, aren't already just acting as a human interface to chatgtp as well.
- dingnuts 1y ago> I can't imagine some therapists, especially remote only, aren't already just acting as a human interface to chatgtp as well. Are you joking? Any medical professional caught doing this should lose their license. I would be incensed if I was a patient in this situation, and would litigate. What you're describing is literal malpractice.
- xboxnolifes 1y agoSoftware engineers are so accustomed to the idea that skirting your professional responsibility ends with a slap on the wrist and not removing your ability to practice your profession entirely.
- dazed_confused 1y agoYeah in other professions negligence can lead to jail...
- jacobsenscott 1y agoYou overestimate the vigilance of other professions. A Dr or Lawyer needs to screw up really badly, many times, before anything happens. They all go to the same country clubs.
- lupire 1y agoThe only part that looks like malpractice is sharing patient info in a non HIPAA way. Using an assistive tool for advice is not malpractice. The licensed professional is simply accountable for their curation choices.
- waynesonfire 1y agoYou're ignorant. Why wait until a person is so broken they need clinical therapy? Sometimes just a an ear or an oppertunity to write is sufficient. LLMs for therapy is as vaping is to quitting nicotine--extremely helpful to 80+% of people. Confession in the church setting I'd consider similar to talking to LLM. Are you anti-that too? We're talking about people that just need a tool to help them process what is going on in their life at some basic level, not more than just to acknowledge their experience. And frankly, it's not even clear to me that a human therapist is any better. Yeah, maybe the guard-rails are in place but I'm not convinced that if those are crossed it'd result in some sociately consequences. Let people explorer their mind and experience--at the end of the day, I suspect they'd be healthier for it.
- mattgreenrocks 1y ago> And frankly, it's not even clear to me that a human therapist is any better. A big point of therapy is helping the patient better ascertain reality and deal with it. Hopefully, the patient learns how to reckon with their mind better and deceive themselves less. But this requires an entity that actually exists in the world and can bear witness. LLMs, frankly, don’t deal with reality. I’ll concede that LLMs can give people what they think therapy is about: lying on a couch unpacking what’s in their head. But this is not at all the same as actual therapeutic modalities. That requires another person that knows what they’re doing and can act as an outside observer with an interest in bettering the patient.
- jrflowers 1y ago> Sometimes just a an ear or an oppertunity to write is sufficient. People were able to write about their feelings and experiences before the invention of a chat bot that tells you everything that you wrote is true. Like you could do that in notepad or on a piece of paper and it was free
- dmix 1y agoMost therapists barely say anything by design, just know when to ask questions or lead you somewhere. So having one always talking in every statement doesn't fit the method. More like a friend you dump on simulator.
- 999900000999 1y ago[flagged]
- thrown-0825 1y agoMost people shop around for therapists that align with their values anyways. They are really paying $800 / month to have their feelings validated and receive a diagnosis that absolves them from taking ownership over their emotions and actions.
- AlecSchueler 1y agoSource for this? Either way it's still demonstrably the most effective treatment for many issues. Sometimes being heard is good enough.
- thrown-0825 1y agohttps://www.researchgate.net/publication/257958560_A_Model_for_Addressing_Client-Clinician_Value_Conflict https://www.researchgate.net/publication/257958560_A_Model_f... It suggests that shared values may predict more positive outcomes, and therapists should develop ethical sensitivity regarding value conflict. Many patients are encouraged to shop around for therapists and typically wind up with someone they are comfortable with whos value system aligns with theirs. AKA a private echo chamber financially incentivized to cultivate recurring revenue via emotionally dependent patients.
- 999900000999 1y agoYeah, but the number one stressor for the vast majority of people is money in one way or another. If you have a spare 9600$ a year to be heard you're doing very well. Remember, we're talking about a country where people skip insulin. Back during my second eviction I had a friend listen to me whine on the phone for hours. That's a debt I can never repay, I definitely didn't have health insurance or a spare 800$ a month back then. Or to flip this around, 800$ a month would be a fantastic treatment for most stressed out lower income people. I really hate how therapy is promoted as some kind of miracle, when; A) It's completely inaccessible to those who need it most. B) Can actually make things significantly worse. C) You probably just need to do less of whatever your doing. But if slow down you might get fired. If you get fired you won't be able to afford 800$ a month!
- tim333 1y agoThere's an advantage to something like an LLM in that you can be more scientific as to whether it's effective or not, and if one gets good results you can reproduce the model. With humans there's too much variability to tell very much.