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So the narrative of this site is that they think recruiters are doing a poor job of spamming me with positions that nobody wants? I mean, hiring is down -- but

So the narrative of this site is that they think recruiters are doing a poor job of spamming me with positions that nobody wants? I mean, hiring is down -- but I still get those spam messages. (And spoiler alert: I still don't want those positions)

missedthecue 1y ago
No, the ELI5 is that the companies are posting jobs in a way that makes it very inconvenient to find online or apply for them, to ensure it goes to the H1B visa holder and not to an American national. (actually it's less about filling the job itself and more about the PERM greencard process, but that's not super relevant to the explanation.) By law, these companies must prove the job cannot be filled by an American in order to hire the visa worker. One way to 'ensure' this is to only advertise jobs in newspapers or in radio advertisements, or in unlinked and unindexed webpages. That way, the American never knows the job exists, and the company can prove on paper to the Department of Labor that they tried to hire an American but couldn't find one. The InstaCart job posting for example requires resumes to mailed in through the postal service to their immigration department. The goal of the project is to aggregate these jobs in a place that Americans can find and apply for them. An additional thing to note is that the company MUST respond to the US applicant within 30 days, or the applicant can file an official complaint with the government.
- selimthegrim 1y ago
  I actually saw one of these newspaper advertisements in New Orleans for a New Orleans based company (that had been recently acquired by a big multinational), and attempted to apply. I’m sure they must’ve been incredibly shocked to have a local applicant to reject.
- bubblethink 1y ago
  >but that's not super relevant to the explanation It is entirely relevant to the explanation. PERM and H1B are entirely different processes handled by different departments of the government. >One way to 'ensure' this is to only advertise jobs in newspapers or in radio advertisements That's not some nefarious plot. The government (Dept. of Labor) requires them to post these ads in newspapers. If the government didn't, they wouldn't post these asinine ads. >That way, the American never knows the job exists The job does not exist for all practical purposes because there is already someone working in that job. Perhaps your goal is to effect some change so that more Americans get these jobs. This is not the vector of attack though. You want to focus on the root of the problem, namely that corporations are able to hire people at will in the first place. Once they've hired someone, applying to same job is not going to make them fire that person and hire you instead. You want to take the agency away from corporations at inception, so that you can be hired.
- danesparza 1y ago
  The fundamental flaw in your thinking is that you think you are owed a good paying job in the first place. If you want the system to give you a good paying job, then change the system. Get everyone around you to agree to a universal basic income and elect representatives that feel the same way that you do. Don't hate companies for posting jobs in a way in which they are legally required to. And don't hate Americans for not wanting to earn advanced degrees or get years of experience in order to qualify for a job.
  - carlosjobim 1y ago
    > The fundamental flaw in your thinking is that you think you are owed a good paying job in the first place. Let's spit on the filthy peasants, my brother! > If you want the system to give you a good paying job, then change the system. Are you talking about the system that forces companies to prove that they can't find any qualified citizen if they want to hire a foreigner?

missedthecue 1y ago

No, the ELI5 is that the companies are posting jobs in a way that makes it very inconvenient to find online or apply for them, to ensure it goes to the H1B visa holder and not to an American national. (actually it's less about filling the job itself and more about the PERM greencard process, but that's not super relevant to the explanation.) By law, these companies must prove the job cannot be filled by an American in order to hire the visa worker. One way to 'ensure' this is to only advertise jobs in newspapers or in radio advertisements, or in unlinked and unindexed webpages. That way, the American never knows the job exists, and the company can prove on paper to the Department of Labor that they tried to hire an American but couldn't find one. The InstaCart job posting for example requires resumes to mailed in through the postal service to their immigration department. The goal of the project is to aggregate these jobs in a place that Americans can find and apply for them. An additional thing to note is that the company MUST respond to the US applicant within 30 days, or the applicant can file an official complaint with the government.

selimthegrim 1y ago
I actually saw one of these newspaper advertisements in New Orleans for a New Orleans based company (that had been recently acquired by a big multinational), and attempted to apply. I’m sure they must’ve been incredibly shocked to have a local applicant to reject.
bubblethink 1y ago
>but that's not super relevant to the explanation It is entirely relevant to the explanation. PERM and H1B are entirely different processes handled by different departments of the government. >One way to 'ensure' this is to only advertise jobs in newspapers or in radio advertisements That's not some nefarious plot. The government (Dept. of Labor) requires them to post these ads in newspapers. If the government didn't, they wouldn't post these asinine ads. >That way, the American never knows the job exists The job does not exist for all practical purposes because there is already someone working in that job. Perhaps your goal is to effect some change so that more Americans get these jobs. This is not the vector of attack though. You want to focus on the root of the problem, namely that corporations are able to hire people at will in the first place. Once they've hired someone, applying to same job is not going to make them fire that person and hire you instead. You want to take the agency away from corporations at inception, so that you can be hired.
danesparza 1y ago
The fundamental flaw in your thinking is that you think you are owed a good paying job in the first place. If you want the system to give you a good paying job, then change the system. Get everyone around you to agree to a universal basic income and elect representatives that feel the same way that you do. Don't hate companies for posting jobs in a way in which they are legally required to. And don't hate Americans for not wanting to earn advanced degrees or get years of experience in order to qualify for a job.
- carlosjobim 1y ago
  > The fundamental flaw in your thinking is that you think you are owed a good paying job in the first place. Let's spit on the filthy peasants, my brother! > If you want the system to give you a good paying job, then change the system. Are you talking about the system that forces companies to prove that they can't find any qualified citizen if they want to hire a foreigner?