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Job Listing Site Highlighting H-1B Positions So Americans Can Apply
- toomuchtodo 1y agohttps://www.jobs.now/ https://www.jobs.now/ Relevant comment by lgleason at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44880832 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44880832
- rayiner 1y agoThe H1B system is just so terrible for everyone involved. No job posting requirement for H1B but you have to post the job when someone applies for a green card a decade later?
- ahmeneeroe-v2 1y agoAgreed that H1B should have better job posting requirements, but this pre-green card check seems like a great mechanism to ensure we're not long-term giving jobs to non-US Nationals
- rayiner 1y agoThe problem is that temporary worker programs are a bait and switch. It’s impossible to send people back after they’ve been here for a decade. Any notion that the PERM adjustment is another opportunity to double check will be hard to water down the process for the initial H1B visa grant. And then the PERM check will be gamed. That is, in fact, how the State Department turned the H visa category (created in the 1960s) became a de facto permanent immigration visa long before the 1990 immigration act. It just kept adding administrative exceptions to make it easier for people to stay.
- ahmeneeroe-v2 1y agoYou're not wrong. I am in favor of abolishing H1B. Guest workers should by minimal and exceptional
- ivape 1y agoYeah, well, won't matter. Those H-1B jobs are full on Java with the most vile old school stacks you can imagine. Edit: I'm mostly saying it because everyone now days thinks every tech job is some html and javascript and anyone can pick it up. Doesn't matter how smart you are, one does not simply walk into a h1b Java role. You have to be born in the darkness, molded by it.
- ohreallx 1y agoAh yes, the kind of job you can do 9x5 for decades without pressure to use your own time to make sure you are really staying up to date with the fads for your job next year while trying to deliver something stable enough to make it to your last day..
- danesparza 1y agoThere is a single job posting on jobs.now for Java. Posted 3 weeks ago. I don't think this is succeeding even as a jobs site.
- danesparza 1y agoSo the narrative of this site is that they think recruiters are doing a poor job of spamming me with positions that nobody wants? I mean, hiring is down -- but I still get those spam messages. (And spoiler alert: I still don't want those positions)
- missedthecue 1y agoNo, the ELI5 is that the companies are posting jobs in a way that makes it very inconvenient to find online or apply for them, to ensure it goes to the H1B visa holder and not to an American national. (actually it's less about filling the job itself and more about the PERM greencard process, but that's not super relevant to the explanation.) By law, these companies must prove the job cannot be filled by an American in order to hire the visa worker. One way to 'ensure' this is to only advertise jobs in newspapers or in radio advertisements, or in unlinked and unindexed webpages. That way, the American never knows the job exists, and the company can prove on paper to the Department of Labor that they tried to hire an American but couldn't find one. The InstaCart job posting for example requires resumes to mailed in through the postal service to their immigration department. The goal of the project is to aggregate these jobs in a place that Americans can find and apply for them. An additional thing to note is that the company MUST respond to the US applicant within 30 days, or the applicant can file an official complaint with the government.
- selimthegrim 1y agoI actually saw one of these newspaper advertisements in New Orleans for a New Orleans based company (that had been recently acquired by a big multinational), and attempted to apply. I’m sure they must’ve been incredibly shocked to have a local applicant to reject.
- bubblethink 1y ago>but that's not super relevant to the explanation It is entirely relevant to the explanation. PERM and H1B are entirely different processes handled by different departments of the government. >One way to 'ensure' this is to only advertise jobs in newspapers or in radio advertisements That's not some nefarious plot. The government (Dept. of Labor) requires them to post these ads in newspapers. If the government didn't, they wouldn't post these asinine ads. >That way, the American never knows the job exists The job does not exist for all practical purposes because there is already someone working in that job. Perhaps your goal is to effect some change so that more Americans get these jobs. This is not the vector of attack though. You want to focus on the root of the problem, namely that corporations are able to hire people at will in the first place. Once they've hired someone, applying to same job is not going to make them fire that person and hire you instead. You want to take the agency away from corporations at inception, so that you can be hired.
- danesparza 1y agoI searched for 'go' (expecting there to be too many results -- I usually have to specify 'golang'). I got a single result. For an auto technician. For Ferraris. (not kidding: https://www.jobs.now/jobs/150823097-ferrari-classic-master-technician https://www.jobs.now/jobs/150823097-ferrari-classic-master-t...) Oh, the irony. As a simple comparison, doing a quick job search for 'golang' on dice.com yields 5k+ jobs. Tell me why I'm going to use jobs.now again?
- smnrchrds 1y agoThe only effect of applying to jobs on jobs.now is that someone who is already working in the US on H1-B, and was gonna get green card if you hadn't applied, would instead stay on H1-B.
- philwelch 1y agoH1-B visas eventually expire. I think it’s technically a guest worker visa, so the expectation is that the visa holder will go back to their home country after working in the US a few years.
- smnrchrds 1y agoH1-Bs are indefinitely renewable as long as you keep your job.
- mavelikara 1y agoNo. They are indefinitely renewable only if a GC application is pending. Otherwise, they expire after two terms i.e. six years.
- jltsiren 1y agoIt's six years in total, excluding time spent outside the US. The status is valid for at most three calendar years, but it can be shorter for fixed-term positions. And you can renew it as long as your total time in the US is less than 6 years. I was on H-1B at a university where researcher appointments were nominally from July of year N to June of year N+2. But if you didn't start in July, your second appointment might be only 1 year, for some bureaucratic reasons. And you had to renew the H-1B for each appointment. I had five H-1Bs in total over ~7 years.
- bruceb 1y agoSelecting Other, some interesting jobs description including: https://www.jobs.now/jobs/151415137-hotel-renovation-specialist https://www.jobs.now/jobs/151415137-hotel-renovation-special... Must be fluent in Russian. Do you really need to have this to do the job? https://www.jobs.now/jobs/153205684-senior-director-enrollment https://www.jobs.now/jobs/153205684-senior-director-enrollme... Must have masters in Project Management, IT, Business Administration (pretty broad). Also have 4 years experience in enrollment management systems & operations in higher education setting. Probably a decent number Americans who could qualify for this.
- toomuchtodo 1y agoFor the job requiring Russian, that requirement is likely because the owner or hiring manager speaks Russian (the name where to send resumes to is Russian). Should that be a legitimate requirement to allow a visa for someone to work in the US? I cannot speak to that.
- orochimaaru 1y agoIt should not. But there is no one vetting the validity of the requirements.
- lovich 1y agoShould it not be? If the criteria is there solely to make sure only his countrymen can get jobs and get to the US then I agree it’s wrong. However if they were willing to hire anyone who spoke Russian regardless of origin then I think the question becomes “Are people/companies allowed to hire for niche skill sets that fit their specific needs, when it de facto bars 99% of citizens from getting the job?”
- orochimaaru 1y agoAt this point in time I believe there is an embargo on trade with Russia. Having a job like that since the beginning of the Ukraine war sanctions should have raised red flags.
- healsdata 1y agoAt least one company I worked at purposefully crafted these job descriptions so that no one would be qualified. They'd find the most obscure parts of our tech stack, require hands on experience with each library, knowledge of our niche, and so on. You basically had to be already working for us to have the required experience.
- fakedang 1y agoIt's the same with most job adverts in the UK, written to satisfy the 3 week listing requirement before the job can be offered to a foreign national.
- HankStallone 1y agoIt's hard for me to believe that anyone working in a tech industry hasn't seen this kind of thing happening or heard managers/owners talking about gaming the system. When people say they've never heard of it or don't think it happens, I wonder if they're incredibly naive or being evasive.
- rkomorn 1y agoIn many places it's talked about only by immigration lawyers and people who must be involved. If you're not very active in recruiting (especially at a sizeable company), it's not hard to be outside of the circles where those conversations are happening.
- shaftway 1y agoThis happens at a much smaller level too. We knew an au pair that the host family particularly liked, and wanted her long term. A typical au pair contract is for 1 year, maximum is 2. They worked with an immigration attorney to craft a "job" that she was uniquely qualified for, went through the whole dance, and got her into the system. She stayed with them for the next 10 years. They covered room and board, but she worked for free otherwise; getting her in the door and on the way to citizenship was her "pay".
- pelagicAustral 1y agoI think the true selection comes with the requirements. I my country, employers are circumventing the same local-first rule by coming up with the craziest Rube Goldberg requirement contraptions so they hire whoever they want anyway...
- 1024core 1y agoThe "best" part about H1-B (from a company's viewpoint) is that it's very difficult to switch jobs if you're on an H1-B. So you basically become an indentured servant, always afraid Da Bossman will fire you and you'll have 30 days to get out of the country. There's no way they can pull such shit on American workers.
- Ocha 1y agothat’s not true - it’s pretty easy to switch. Your application does not count against new quota - employer just needs to pay a lawyer to file paperwork and done. Been there, done that.
- orochimaaru 1y agoIt’s not easy to switch. I’ve been on this more than a decade ago and if you’re laid off or leave you have 60 days to find something new. Any job you take you need your new employer to be able to undertake the effort for H1B renewals and the inevitable green card application. There’s big companies that do it and smaller ones that will absolutely refuse to. Either way an H1B prefers to stick around until the green card is done. They will not willingly prior to that unless they see a much better offer.
- dilyevsky 1y agoIt was probably closer to truth 20 years ago just for lack of experience among lawyers and hr but today h-1b transfer is not hard at all.
- filleduchaos 1y agoThe point is not that the transfer is difficult, the point is that finding a suitable new job in the designated time period has a difficulty you can't predict.
- dilyevsky 1y ago
- y-curious 1y agoCool, a job board site where you're guaranteed to be rejected because they are only posting the job to hire an H1B. Is there any legal mechanism in place by which this jams up the company posting these? I don't think so. They'll just say you aren't qualified and move on
- avidiax 1y agoJust tell them you are qualified. Now they have to interview you to determine that you are not. Ultimately, this is something that the government should be monitoring. It's a legal farce that the system depends on U.S. citizens diligently applying for jobs that both sides know will never result in a job placement.
- y-curious 1y agoI had a company ask me, early in my career, to post a job posting for an H1B job on the wall of a locker room at a hospital. I was unwittingly involved in this physical theater.
- fundad 1y agoI can't figure out how they know the job is related to the PERM program. I looked at a job posting and didn't see an indication, does Jobs.now read from filings with USCIS or DOL?
- avidiax 1y agoThese jobs are being posted in places that no normal job applicant would look.
- declan_roberts 1y agoThere are a few tells. The biggest one is that they require you to send in a paper resume to some random address. The other tell is that the salaries are often very under market for that region.
- redat00 1y ago(French citizen speaking) I think that y'all are a bit unfair in the way you're talking about H-1Bs. I know that in the US recruitment in tech is at a all time low, and that you would most likely want the few jobs that actually exist to go towards US Citizens. I get this feeling. However, thinking that you're jobless because of H-1B is kind of ridiculous. You're straight up lying to yourselves at this point. I get that some companies might abuse the system, especially tech consulting firms that are looking for people that will work for way cheaper, since they would do absolutely everything to evade their third world country. But please, at a time where companies are insulting everyone of us by saying that they can simply replace us with clankers, don't use H-1Bs as a punching ball. The people in charge, who are just seeking higher margins, are the one that makes it hard for you guys to find a job, and making you leave hell with layoffs. Be better.
- daft_pink 1y agoI think it’s really fascinating when you go the the actual website that can be found here: https://www.jobs.now https://www.jobs.now There are clearly jobs listed here like bookkeeper that no shortage exists for and doesn’t seem to require any specialized skill. I find it fascinating to see the type of jobs that are listed. Also all the jobs clearly have pay ranges! It’s very humorous to me that when I was looking for a job, most jobs didn’t have pay ranges and these all do. Maybe a clear pay range is evidence that the job really doesn’t exist.
- sitzkrieg 1y agosome states passed laws (lmao) requiring ranges over the years, maybe they put up some blankets
- declan_roberts 1y agoIt's absurd to think bookkeepers are in such short supply that we need to provide permanent residency to a foreigner to do the job over an American. One position is at a Chinese company in San Francisco with salary that's hardly livable there. They like h1b because they can be underpaid and overworked (abused).
- sitzkrieg 1y agogood fuck h1b. these companies are digging their own graves cash in fish cheap labor at bay. ustech hasnt put america first basically ever. dont even mention the taxes