5 ms·
That's still not much for wiring in most countries. A small IKEA consumer oven is only 230V16A=3860W. Those GPUs and CPUs only consume that much at max usage an
by chronogram 1y ago
That's still not much for wiring in most countries. A small IKEA consumer oven is only 230V16A=3860W. Those GPUs and CPUs only consume that much at max usage anyway. And those CPUs are uninteresting for consumers, you only need a few Watts for a single good core, like a Mac Mini has.
- dv_dt 1y agoSo Europe ends up with an incidental/accidental advantage in the AI race?
- buckle8017 1y agoIn residential power delivery? yes In power cost? no I'm literally any other way? also no
- kube-system 1y agoConsumers with desktop computers are not winning any AI race anywhere.
- atonse 1y agoAll American households get mains power at 240v (I'm missing some nuance here about poles and phases, so the electrical people can correct my terminology). It's often used for things like ACs, Clothes Dryers, Stoves, EV Chargers. So it's pretty simple for a certified electrician to just make a 240v outlet if needed. It's just not the default that comes out of a wall.
- kube-system 1y agoTo get technical -- US homes get two phases of 120v that are 180 degrees out of phase with the neutral. Using either phase and the neutral gives you 120v. Using the two out of phase 120v phases together gives you a difference of 240v. https://appliantology.org/uploads/monthly_2016_06/large.57581ad8d9a5d_240VACinResidentialPowerSupplies.png.f176ab25d2092125b3d05d648597b1f8.png https://appliantology.org/uploads/monthly_2016_06/large.5758...
- ender341341 1y agoEven more technical, we don't have two phases, we have 1-phase that's split in half. I hate it cause it makes it confusing. Two phase power is not the same as split phase (There's basically only weird older installations of 2 phase in use anymore).
- kube-system 1y agoYeah that's right. The grid is three phases (as it is basically everywhere in the world), and the transformer at the pole splits one of those in half. Although, what are technically half-phases are usually just called "phases" when they're inside of a home.
- voxadam 1y agoRelevant video from Technology Connections: "The US electrical system is not 120V" https://youtu.be/jMmUoZh3Hq4 https://youtu.be/jMmUoZh3Hq4
- atonse 1y agoThat's such a great video, like most of his stuff.
- dv_dt 1y agoWell yes its possible but often $500-1000 to run a new 240v outlet, and that's to a garage for an ev charger. If you want an outlet in the house I dont know how much wall people want to tear up and extra time and cost.
- atonse 1y agoSure yeah, I was just clarifying that if the issue is 240v, etc, US houses have the feed coming in. Infrastructure-wise it's not an issue at all.
- ender341341 1y ago> So it's pretty simple for a certified electrician to just make a 240v outlet if needed. It's just not the default that comes out of a wall. It'd be all new wire run (120 is split at the panel, we aren't running 240v all over the house) and currently electricians are at a premium so it'd likely end up costing a thousand+ to run that if you're using an electrician, more if there's not clear access from an attic/basement/crawlspace. Though I think it's unlikely we'll see an actual need for it at home, I imaging a 800w cpu is going to be for server class CPUs and rare-ish to see in home environments.
- vel0city 1y agoI don't think many people would want some 2kW+ system sitting on their desk at home anyways. That's quite a space heater to sit next to.
- com2kid 1y ago> and currently electricians are at a premium so it'd likely end up costing a thousand+ I got a quote for over 2 thousand to run a 24v line literally 9 feet from my electrical panel across my garage to put a EV charger in. Opening up an actual wall and running it to another room? I can only imagine the insane quotes that'd get.
- Marsymars 1y agoI kinda suspect there’s a premium once you mention “EV vehicle”, since you’re signalling that you’re affluent enough to afford an EV and have committed to spending the money required to get EV charging at home working, etc. (Kinda like getting a quote for anything wedding related.) I’m getting some wiring run about the same distance (to my attic, fished up a wall, with moderately poor access) for non-EV purposes next week and the quote was a few hundred dollars.
- the8472 1y agoIf we're counting all the phases then european homes get 400V 3-phase, not 240V split-phase. Not that typical residential connections matter to highend servers.
- bonzini 1y agoIt depends on the country, in many places independent houses get a single 230V phase only.
- lillecarl 1y agoIn the Nordics we're on 10A for standard wall outlets so we're stuck on 2300W without rewiring (or verifying wiring) to 2.5mm2. We rarely use 16A but it exists. All buildings are connected to three phases so we can get the real juice when needed (apartments are often single phase). I'm confident personal computers won't reach 2300W anytime soon though
- bonzini 1y agoIn Italy we also have 10A and 16A (single phase). In practice however almost all wires running in the walls are 2.5 mm^2, so that you can use them for either one 16A plug or two adjacent 10A plugs.
- Tor3 1y agoIn the Nordics (I'm assuming you mean Nordic countries) 10A is _not_ standard. Used to be, some forty years ago. Since then 16A is standard. My house has a few 10A leftovers from when the house was built, and after the change to TN which happened a couple of decades ago, and with new "modern" breakers, a single microwave oven on a 10A circuit is enough to trip the breaker (when the microwave pulses). Had to get the breakers changed to slow ones, but even those can get tripped by a microwave oven if there's something else (say, a kettle) on the same circuit. 16A is fine, for most things. 10A used to be kind of ok, with the old IT net and old-style fuses. Nowadays anything under 16A is useless for actual appliances. For the rest it's either 25A and a different plug, or 400V.
- lillecarl 1y agoLet's rephrase: 10A is the effective standard that's been in use for a long long time, if you walk into a building you can assume it has 10A breakers. On new installations you can choose 10A or 16A so if you're forward thinking you'd go 16 since it gives you another 1300 watts to play with.
- nordcikmgsdf 1y ago[dead]
- rbanffy 1y ago> And those CPUs are uninteresting for consumers, you only need a few Watts for a single good core, like a Mac Mini has. Speak for yourself. I’d love to have that much computer at my disposal. Not sure what I’d do with it. Probably open Slack and Teams at the same time.
- ThunderSizzle 1y ago> Probably open Slack and Teams at the same time. Too bad it feels like both might as well be single threaded applications somehow
- rbanffy 1y agoI could use KVM and open a bunch of instances of each.