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Anecdotally it seems like alcohol is being replaced with weed or other things. But it doesn't bode well for the future of mental health if social drinking is be

Anecdotally it seems like alcohol is being replaced with weed or other things. But it doesn't bode well for the future of mental health if social drinking is being replaced with solo drug use or just solo everything.

taeric 1y ago
Yeah, I have a hard time thinking this is specifically a good thing. A better relationship with drinking is not something to argue against, of course. But I find the dysfunction in so many people that take a strong stance against it rather hard to ignore, as well.
amanaplanacanal 1y ago
if. Other drug use can be just as social as alcohol consumption.
- oldmanhorton 1y ago
  And also, a decent chunk of alcohol consumption must be solo? I'd bet alcohol is broadly more social, but I would also wonder if that would change if more public gathering places served weed in some form.
- OkayPhysicist 1y ago
  Since opium dens fell out of favor, the only psychoactive substances that have dedicated social spaces are booze (bars, nightclubs) and nicotine (hookah lounges, cigar clubs). This could change, but it hasn't yet. It sure seems like society's just swinging antisocial.
  - xnx 1y ago
    > the only psychoactive substances that have dedicated social spaces are booze (bars, nightclubs) and nicotine (hookah lounges, cigar clubs) caffeine (cafes)
    - OkayPhysicist 1y ago
      Maybe it's just where I live, but cafes and coffee shops no longer have the expectation of being open to conversation with strangers.
  - throwawa5 1y ago
    Raves, (some) nightclubs, and music festivals are the equivalent for MDMA/ket/psychedelics and there are plenty of options in every city.
  - tpm 1y ago
    There are also teahouses in some cities.
epolanski 1y ago
I think you have a point. While I drink mostly in company, and rarely if ever alone, I do consume weed mostly alone. Also, as it makes me tired, it also makes me less incline to go out and meet people. Those, and other reasons generally push me against consuming it more than few times an year.
- calmbonsai 1y ago
  I guess I'm odd in that I enjoy alcohol both ways. I love a good novel paired with a whisky for an solo evening in, pints with 'da boyz at the pub, and food & winery tours with couples and friends.
atsushin 1y ago
The lack of IRL 'third places' for young people to meet locally will only exacerbate the issue -- and probably should bear most of the blame. The car-centric infrastructure of the suburbs (well, the vast majority of America) encourages isolation and asocial behavior. It really sucks that for some, their lives will never go beyond that invisible cage.
- _DeadFred_ 1y ago
  When I was young we lived just as spread out. We just biked/skateboarded to places. We stashed our surf boards at the closest house to the beach. We made third spaces happen. Why has that stopped being an option? Is it because people's parents are too scared to let them do it when they are young (we were taking public busses to downtown Santa Cruz in junior high but we were latch key 80s/90s kids with zero oversite) and so they don't realize it's an option when they are older or?
  - DANmode 1y ago
    Because not everyone is born into, or lives in, beach culture. that'll be the reason in most cases.
    - _DeadFred_ 1y ago
      Why does it have to be beach culture? Where I live now we have: Mountain hiking/biking trails started from the outskirts of town. Parks within town. A downtown with parks and a lake front park with swimming, volleyball, basketball, lakefront trails, small food concessions. A city skate/bike park. City tennis courts. City basketball courts. A walking/biking trail that runs from one edge of town to another, ending in a mountain biking/hiking trail system. All of these things are way way under utilized compared to 10 years ago even though the youth population has grown. They used to be packed. Only thing busy is the library, I suspect because it has wifi/computers/gaming computers/air conditioning but it's still only like 20-30 people. I rarely see anyone under 40 on the mountain hiking/biking trails. Ski mountain/biking has 20 somethings but most cars are from out of town. Parks are practically empty. Mainly moms and young children. I don't go to the waterfront park so no idea, but downtown I hardly see people heading down there/coming back where before it was a constant stream. Skate park is a few parents with young kids. Tennis courts are mainly 50+. Basketball courts are empty. Bike path is mainly 40+. Town seems deserted at this point, it's wild. We have a used bike shop with basically 'donation' bikes that are $50 and have new tires, brakes, tuned up ready to go, so I don't think it's accessibility. I guess most of these things are aged out things, where the group that did them is now 40+, but younger groups complaining about no third spaces there are a ton they just aren't used.
weinzierl 1y ago
Quite to the contrary. A big part of alcohol use is group pressure. Much better for everyone if people enjoy their drugs alone.
- OkayPhysicist 1y ago
  The entire upside of alcohol use is social lubrication. Frankly, I think our society could benefit from a bit more peer pressure.
  - littlexsparkee 1y ago
    You can get the social upside with adaptogens which are increasingly showing up in canned drinks or drinking kava with friends. Alcohol doesn't have a monopoly on that.
    - OkayPhysicist 1y ago
      We could, but we don't. Alcohol currently has a defacto monopoly on lubricated social spaces. Distant second is nicotine. Nothing else comes anywhere close.
- sillyfluke 1y ago
  Yeah my guess is that this stat won't survive a booming economy. Younger generations are social drinkers and they are skipping drinks when eating out and going out less in general since they're cash strapped. So it's meaningless in this regard, but the stat might still be useful in showing just how fucked the economy truly is.
thewebguyd 1y ago
> being replaced with solo drug use or just solo everything. Solo everything is definitely happening. People are getting priced out, and the third place (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_place https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_place) has pretty much disappeared everywhere. Gen Z is considered the loneliest generation, and its easy to see why. COVID messed things up too, and there's a lot of kids and young adults that have not been properly socialized. And since you have to spend, increasingly large amounts, of money just to go out with friends, people will just stay home instead. Maybe that looks like chatting on discord while playing a game together, but increasingly its looking like solo activities.
- darth_avocado 1y ago
  > people are getting priced out Alcohol is still cheaper than pretty much all the substances that are replacing it and you don’t need to go to a bar to have it. You can get 30 rack for about $20 and hang out in a park with your buddies to finish it.
  - throwawa5 1y ago
    > Alcohol is still cheaper than pretty much all the substances that are replacing it A hit of acid costs $10 and lasts for 12 hours. A 5-10mg THC edible costs around $5, maybe a bit less, and lasts for 4-6 hours. A small dose of mushrooms (500mg-1g), about the same as the edible. Little to no hangover from all of the above unless you go really hard. (Ketamine is an exception here, unless you keep your use infrequent the steep tolerance curve will cause your costs to blow up quickly.) Meanwhile, a pint in a major US city costs like $10 with tax + tip and lasts for what, an hour? Wine or a decent cocktail cost even more. Seems like other substances offer the better deal here if you're looking at pure cost per hour of active effects. If you consider health effects, they win out on that score too, assuming no underlying mental health diagnoses.
    - moregrist 1y ago
      > Meanwhile, a pint in a major US city costs like $10 with tax + tip and lasts for what, an hour? That’s a feature, not a bug. When I want a drink or two, I like to know that I’ll be pretty much sober in 1-2 hours and can drive or do whatever. Setting aside 4-12 hours of time for recreational drug use is a commitment. You’re basically setting aside somewhere between a whole evening to a half day. If you time it wrong, you’re not even sober by morning.
zevon 1y ago
I find this dichotomy a bit strange. A lot of people consume alcohol alone and in many cases this ends up badly for them (no need to speculate about foreboding - the body (and the bodies) of evidence is readily available). Cannabis can be very common in and around social settings, depending on where you are in the world. Other drugs are also pretty much everywhere, including social spaces. They are just more invisible due to their illegality.
- margalabargala 1y ago
  > the body (and the bodies) of evidence is readily available My understanding is that the evidence suggests that light social drinkers tend to be healthier and live longer than people who drink not at all.
  - zevon 1y ago
    Which was not at all what I was taking about, or am I missing a point?
  - Gigachad 1y ago
    That’s just people who have friends and socialise are healthier. There are only negative health effects from alcohol itself. If you went out to all those same events and just drank non alcoholic drinks you’d be healthier.
    - fragmede 1y ago
      That assumes you'd be the same amount of social at those events without alcohol. If a beer or two takes the edge off and you're able to relax and relate and socialize and you're happy, vs you're nervous and uptight and are alone in a crowd, you don't get the same benefit. It's not called a social lubricant for nothing.
  - 0cf8612b2e1e 1y ago
    This line of thinking has been heavily questioned in recent years. People who never drink typically have a strong reason (recovering alcoholic) for which they have already suffered long term damage. Even people who “don’t drink” can be convinced to imbibe a bit on a special occasion (New Years, graduation, wedding, etc).
trashface 1y ago
When I replaced social drinking with solo drinking, I actually drank less (and at a slower pace). Without exception, every bad hangover I've had was from social drinking.
TheAlchemist 1y ago
Exactly this ! I'm not advocating for more alcohol consumption, coming from a Eastern European country I've seen my fair share of what alcoholism can do to people. However, it feels like there are 2 trends, none of which is good from my perspective. First one is what you mention - replacing social activities with solo ones. Second one is overprotecting kids, young adults and everybody in general. Kids in many modern countries are glued to phones and screens in part because their parents or schools don't let them to just go find something to do outside. Let them play on their own - yes it can be dangerous, but if they break an arm or a leg, so be it. They will be fine within a month.
stikypad 1y ago
TFA says the same surveys indicate that alcohol is not being replaced by marijuana use.
silisili 1y ago
Everything is being replaced with solo everything. I know so many young Millennials and Z'ers who quite literally never leave the house. They're content with Doordash and their phones for media. This is what corporations want. Lonely people are constant eyeballs . But this can't be good for society as a whole.

taeric 1y ago

Yeah, I have a hard time thinking this is specifically a good thing. A better relationship with drinking is not something to argue against, of course. But I find the dysfunction in so many people that take a strong stance against it rather hard to ignore, as well.

amanaplanacanal 1y ago

if. Other drug use can be just as social as alcohol consumption.

oldmanhorton 1y ago
And also, a decent chunk of alcohol consumption must be solo? I'd bet alcohol is broadly more social, but I would also wonder if that would change if more public gathering places served weed in some form.
OkayPhysicist 1y ago
Since opium dens fell out of favor, the only psychoactive substances that have dedicated social spaces are booze (bars, nightclubs) and nicotine (hookah lounges, cigar clubs). This could change, but it hasn't yet. It sure seems like society's just swinging antisocial.
- xnx 1y ago
  > the only psychoactive substances that have dedicated social spaces are booze (bars, nightclubs) and nicotine (hookah lounges, cigar clubs) caffeine (cafes)
  - OkayPhysicist 1y ago
    Maybe it's just where I live, but cafes and coffee shops no longer have the expectation of being open to conversation with strangers.
- throwawa5 1y ago
  Raves, (some) nightclubs, and music festivals are the equivalent for MDMA/ket/psychedelics and there are plenty of options in every city.
- tpm 1y ago
  There are also teahouses in some cities.

epolanski 1y ago

I think you have a point. While I drink mostly in company, and rarely if ever alone, I do consume weed mostly alone. Also, as it makes me tired, it also makes me less incline to go out and meet people. Those, and other reasons generally push me against consuming it more than few times an year.

calmbonsai 1y ago
I guess I'm odd in that I enjoy alcohol both ways. I love a good novel paired with a whisky for an solo evening in, pints with 'da boyz at the pub, and food & winery tours with couples and friends.

atsushin 1y ago

The lack of IRL 'third places' for young people to meet locally will only exacerbate the issue -- and probably should bear most of the blame. The car-centric infrastructure of the suburbs (well, the vast majority of America) encourages isolation and asocial behavior. It really sucks that for some, their lives will never go beyond that invisible cage.

_DeadFred_ 1y ago
When I was young we lived just as spread out. We just biked/skateboarded to places. We stashed our surf boards at the closest house to the beach. We made third spaces happen. Why has that stopped being an option? Is it because people's parents are too scared to let them do it when they are young (we were taking public busses to downtown Santa Cruz in junior high but we were latch key 80s/90s kids with zero oversite) and so they don't realize it's an option when they are older or?
- DANmode 1y ago
  Because not everyone is born into, or lives in, beach culture. that'll be the reason in most cases.
  - _DeadFred_ 1y ago
    Why does it have to be beach culture? Where I live now we have: Mountain hiking/biking trails started from the outskirts of town. Parks within town. A downtown with parks and a lake front park with swimming, volleyball, basketball, lakefront trails, small food concessions. A city skate/bike park. City tennis courts. City basketball courts. A walking/biking trail that runs from one edge of town to another, ending in a mountain biking/hiking trail system. All of these things are way way under utilized compared to 10 years ago even though the youth population has grown. They used to be packed. Only thing busy is the library, I suspect because it has wifi/computers/gaming computers/air conditioning but it's still only like 20-30 people. I rarely see anyone under 40 on the mountain hiking/biking trails. Ski mountain/biking has 20 somethings but most cars are from out of town. Parks are practically empty. Mainly moms and young children. I don't go to the waterfront park so no idea, but downtown I hardly see people heading down there/coming back where before it was a constant stream. Skate park is a few parents with young kids. Tennis courts are mainly 50+. Basketball courts are empty. Bike path is mainly 40+. Town seems deserted at this point, it's wild. We have a used bike shop with basically 'donation' bikes that are $50 and have new tires, brakes, tuned up ready to go, so I don't think it's accessibility. I guess most of these things are aged out things, where the group that did them is now 40+, but younger groups complaining about no third spaces there are a ton they just aren't used.

weinzierl 1y ago

Quite to the contrary. A big part of alcohol use is group pressure. Much better for everyone if people enjoy their drugs alone.

OkayPhysicist 1y ago
The entire upside of alcohol use is social lubrication. Frankly, I think our society could benefit from a bit more peer pressure.
- littlexsparkee 1y ago
  You can get the social upside with adaptogens which are increasingly showing up in canned drinks or drinking kava with friends. Alcohol doesn't have a monopoly on that.
  - OkayPhysicist 1y ago
    We could, but we don't. Alcohol currently has a defacto monopoly on lubricated social spaces. Distant second is nicotine. Nothing else comes anywhere close.
sillyfluke 1y ago
Yeah my guess is that this stat won't survive a booming economy. Younger generations are social drinkers and they are skipping drinks when eating out and going out less in general since they're cash strapped. So it's meaningless in this regard, but the stat might still be useful in showing just how fucked the economy truly is.

thewebguyd 1y ago

> being replaced with solo drug use or just solo everything. Solo everything is definitely happening. People are getting priced out, and the third place (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_place https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_place) has pretty much disappeared everywhere. Gen Z is considered the loneliest generation, and its easy to see why. COVID messed things up too, and there's a lot of kids and young adults that have not been properly socialized. And since you have to spend, increasingly large amounts, of money just to go out with friends, people will just stay home instead. Maybe that looks like chatting on discord while playing a game together, but increasingly its looking like solo activities.

darth_avocado 1y ago
> people are getting priced out Alcohol is still cheaper than pretty much all the substances that are replacing it and you don’t need to go to a bar to have it. You can get 30 rack for about $20 and hang out in a park with your buddies to finish it.
- throwawa5 1y ago
  > Alcohol is still cheaper than pretty much all the substances that are replacing it A hit of acid costs $10 and lasts for 12 hours. A 5-10mg THC edible costs around $5, maybe a bit less, and lasts for 4-6 hours. A small dose of mushrooms (500mg-1g), about the same as the edible. Little to no hangover from all of the above unless you go really hard. (Ketamine is an exception here, unless you keep your use infrequent the steep tolerance curve will cause your costs to blow up quickly.) Meanwhile, a pint in a major US city costs like $10 with tax + tip and lasts for what, an hour? Wine or a decent cocktail cost even more. Seems like other substances offer the better deal here if you're looking at pure cost per hour of active effects. If you consider health effects, they win out on that score too, assuming no underlying mental health diagnoses.
  - moregrist 1y ago
    > Meanwhile, a pint in a major US city costs like $10 with tax + tip and lasts for what, an hour? That’s a feature, not a bug. When I want a drink or two, I like to know that I’ll be pretty much sober in 1-2 hours and can drive or do whatever. Setting aside 4-12 hours of time for recreational drug use is a commitment. You’re basically setting aside somewhere between a whole evening to a half day. If you time it wrong, you’re not even sober by morning.

zevon 1y ago

I find this dichotomy a bit strange. A lot of people consume alcohol alone and in many cases this ends up badly for them (no need to speculate about foreboding - the body (and the bodies) of evidence is readily available). Cannabis can be very common in and around social settings, depending on where you are in the world. Other drugs are also pretty much everywhere, including social spaces. They are just more invisible due to their illegality.

margalabargala 1y ago
> the body (and the bodies) of evidence is readily available My understanding is that the evidence suggests that light social drinkers tend to be healthier and live longer than people who drink not at all.
- zevon 1y ago
  Which was not at all what I was taking about, or am I missing a point?
- Gigachad 1y ago
  That’s just people who have friends and socialise are healthier. There are only negative health effects from alcohol itself. If you went out to all those same events and just drank non alcoholic drinks you’d be healthier.
  - fragmede 1y ago
    That assumes you'd be the same amount of social at those events without alcohol. If a beer or two takes the edge off and you're able to relax and relate and socialize and you're happy, vs you're nervous and uptight and are alone in a crowd, you don't get the same benefit. It's not called a social lubricant for nothing.
- 0cf8612b2e1e 1y ago
  This line of thinking has been heavily questioned in recent years. People who never drink typically have a strong reason (recovering alcoholic) for which they have already suffered long term damage. Even people who “don’t drink” can be convinced to imbibe a bit on a special occasion (New Years, graduation, wedding, etc).

trashface 1y ago

When I replaced social drinking with solo drinking, I actually drank less (and at a slower pace). Without exception, every bad hangover I've had was from social drinking.

TheAlchemist 1y ago

Exactly this ! I'm not advocating for more alcohol consumption, coming from a Eastern European country I've seen my fair share of what alcoholism can do to people. However, it feels like there are 2 trends, none of which is good from my perspective. First one is what you mention - replacing social activities with solo ones. Second one is overprotecting kids, young adults and everybody in general. Kids in many modern countries are glued to phones and screens in part because their parents or schools don't let them to just go find something to do outside. Let them play on their own - yes it can be dangerous, but if they break an arm or a leg, so be it. They will be fine within a month.

stikypad 1y ago

TFA says the same surveys indicate that alcohol is not being replaced by marijuana use.

silisili 1y ago

Everything is being replaced with solo everything. I know so many young Millennials and Z'ers who quite literally never leave the house. They're content with Doordash and their phones for media. This is what corporations want. Lonely people are constant eyeballs . But this can't be good for society as a whole.