6 ms·

Trump Just Militarized the Capital – What Comes Next?

44 points by Vivaed 1y ago

josevalerio 1y ago
[flagged]
- dang 1y ago
  Posting like this will get you banned here so please don't.
Bender 1y ago
[flagged]
- chaps 1y ago
  Do you think that crime is "on the rise"?
  - Bender 1y ago
    I think that crime is not recognized or tracked in some cities. This is a problem in the USA. Canada is not having these issues in big cities as they have zero tolerance for violent crime.
    - ohreallx 1y ago
      [flagged]
    - chaps 1y ago
      Let me ask a different question. Do you think violent crime is on the rise?
      - Bender 1y ago
        Do you think violent crime is on the rise? Nobody knows the real answer to this. Rather cities have become violent over time and criminals are released shortly after their violent crimes. The general public is well aware of this and why there is a non-partisan rise in home and self defense purchases.
        chaps 1y ago
        Couple more questions: 1. "Nobody knows the real answer to this." Including you? 2. Do you think, specifically for argumentation, that Chicago is going up or down in its murder rates?
        atmavatar 1y ago
        > Rather cities have become violent over time and criminals are released shortly after their violent crimes. Do you have evidence for this? Literally your prior sentence says no one knows, but now you're making a concrete claim that not only is violent crime on the rise, but that we're releasing criminals shortly thereafter. Citation needed. All crime statistics I've seen indicate that violent crime has been on a steady decline for decades. If you have a credible source with data that refutes this, then by all means, please provide a link to it. > The general public is well aware of this and why there is a non-partisan rise in home and self defense purchases. This doesn't really mean anything. It is no surprise that the perception of peril is at an all time high, given reporting on violent crime has dramatically increased over time, especially on right-leaning media. When there isn't anything sufficiently terrifying to report, stuff gets made up (e.g., immigrants eating pets). A fearful audience is more engaged, but perhaps more importantly, a fearful public is easier to manipulate.
        fzeroracer 1y ago
        So if nobody knows the answer to this, why do you trust the federal government to have the answer to this? Why do you think military occupation is the solution?
    - jhanschoo 1y ago
      What personal experiences, reporting, or studies have led you to this belief? If you have them easily available, please share them so that they can convince others reading your comment as well.
    - thePhytochemist 1y ago
      Gun control is the main reason we have less violent crime in Canada. There is still violent crime here though, it's not a safe wonderland. There is often impunity given to certain people for serious but nonviolent crime like identity theft and selling schedule 1 narcotics (the most illegal kind of drug in Canada). They simply keep what they steal or the profit and are allowed to carry on even if there is clear proof in possession by law enforcement. I don't think an authoritarian response is really what we need but it does make a mockery of the criminal system when this is the policy. And the damage is real, with the victims left to just put the pieces back together on their own.
      - msgodel 1y ago
        There are plenty of guns in Canada. Last time I was there the local post office in the town I visited actually sold rifle cases. If you look at the US gun violence data the places that have gun control laws tend to be the ones with the highest rates of gun violence. It's cliche but it's true: guns don't kill people, people kill people. You need to ban violent people not guns.
  - rolph 1y ago
    thats relative, it would be more enlightening to look at who is commiting what types of crime at what rate, then you would have useful information rather than a stark single metric of crime count. i.e. type and freq of crime cross with income and/or occupation.
    - chaps 1y ago
      The question wasn't asked to extract enlightenment. This person in particular does not trust statistics, so the question is aimed at understanding the edges of their lack of trust through Socratic-questioning. Like, I fundamentally disagree with everything they're saying and suggesting, but they're absolutely right that "crime statistics" are garbage and uncollected[1]. But their belief is so confident that crime in DC is so rampant that they feel that it's okay to send the national guard. That confidence comes from somewhere, so I'm trying to ink it out. [1] https://www.themarshallproject.org/2022/08/15/see-if-police-in-your-state-reported-crime-data-to-the-fbi https://www.themarshallproject.org/2022/08/15/see-if-police-...
- ysavir 1y ago
  What's your take on the article saying that D.C.'s crime rate is at a 30 year low? Do you feel that things in big cities are so bad that an overreach of powers is justified in an attempt to fix it?
  - Bender 1y ago
    What's your take on the article saying that D.C.'s crime rate is at a 30 year low? I do not believe crime is accurately tracked [1]. Calling in the guard is not overreach when a city is demanding it through inaction. [1] - https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/dc-police-commander-suspended-crime-statistics/3959566/ https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/dc-police-commander...
    - ysavir 1y ago
      Thanks for sharing the link, I hadn't seen that before! Very serious allegations there. > Calling in the guard is not overreach when a city is demanding it through inaction. Is the city calling for protection, though? There's a big difference between police departments fabricating data and a need for intervention, whether through taking control of the city police or bringing in the national guard. What's the actual situation? Why is the Trump administration militarizing the city instead of running statistics to get actual crime numbers?
    - dttze 1y ago
      Supposedly. He was accused by the police union, who are known to lie for political reasons. Where is the evidence?
  - lefstathiou 1y ago
    Is crime down because they are safer or because police have been told to stand down or see no point if the perp walks free an hour later? Bottom line, I am skeptical. Cities all over have de-criminalized crime, which makes the statistics untrustworthy.
    - piva00 1y ago
- lefstathiou 1y ago
  Agreed, I can't wait. It's this or they should install facial recognition cameras with social credit scores. Either way, something needs to happen. Not an exaggeration, I witness some physical escalation 3 out of 5 days a week between Union Square and Midtown NYC on my daily commute. 10 minutes ago a delivery guy and a pedestrian got into it when the bicyclist ran the red light and went into the cross walk while a swarm of people were walking through it. I've personally been accosted 3x while holding hands and walking my 5-year old son to school in completely "random" acts aggression. Strangely, it's not them trying to rob me, the aim is just to harass.
  - CyberMacGyver 1y ago
    > Agreed, I can't wait. It's this or they should install facial recognition cameras with social credit scores. Either way, something needs to happen. Have you ever lived in a country or state with such utopia as you desire? What if the party you didn’t vote for has control over your social score ?
- happytoexplain 1y ago
  >most of my comments I clicked through five pages of your comment history and only saw one other grey comment besides this one (I have show-dead enabled). I suggest not doing the whole "this will get downvoted, but..." thing. It creates a tone of "I'm the underdog, who knows the uncomfortable truth".
  - Bender 1y ago
    I get dog-piled when a post is active but yes over time people come back and it usually levels out. I am not complaining at all. It's more of a disclaimer that I might trigger someone. I edited my comment to say some.
- happytoexplain 1y ago
  I too want us to get much harsher on crime, but I think it's naive to portray Trump's use of force as anything but a boot on the throat of dissidents and protesters, an authoritarian show of force, a purposeful provocation of his political enemies in an attempt to escalate, etc. I.e. not an honest reaction to crime statistics, obviously. That would mean reform, not ephemeral military takeover.
- xnx 1y ago
  > given up on enforcing laws and in effect have decriminalized crime This is projection by the administration. Trump pardoned 237 people on his first day: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_granted_executive_clemency_in_the_first_presidency_of_Donald_Trump https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_granted_executi...
- bediger4000 1y ago
  Military occupation as a solution to a crime problem that either doesn't exist (if you believe the statistics) or is unknown and unknowable (if you don't) seems like a very bad thing. Advocating for military occupation under these circumstances seems like you've got some other motivation than tough on crime.

44 points by Vivaed 1y ago

josevalerio 1y ago

[flagged]

dang 1y ago
Posting like this will get you banned here so please don't.

Bender 1y ago

[flagged]

chaps 1y ago
Do you think that crime is "on the rise"?
- Bender 1y ago
  I think that crime is not recognized or tracked in some cities. This is a problem in the USA. Canada is not having these issues in big cities as they have zero tolerance for violent crime.
  - ohreallx 1y ago
    [flagged]
  - chaps 1y ago
    Let me ask a different question. Do you think violent crime is on the rise?
    - Bender 1y ago
      Do you think violent crime is on the rise? Nobody knows the real answer to this. Rather cities have become violent over time and criminals are released shortly after their violent crimes. The general public is well aware of this and why there is a non-partisan rise in home and self defense purchases.
      - chaps 1y ago
        Couple more questions: 1. "Nobody knows the real answer to this." Including you? 2. Do you think, specifically for argumentation, that Chicago is going up or down in its murder rates?
      - atmavatar 1y ago
        > Rather cities have become violent over time and criminals are released shortly after their violent crimes. Do you have evidence for this? Literally your prior sentence says no one knows, but now you're making a concrete claim that not only is violent crime on the rise, but that we're releasing criminals shortly thereafter. Citation needed. All crime statistics I've seen indicate that violent crime has been on a steady decline for decades. If you have a credible source with data that refutes this, then by all means, please provide a link to it. > The general public is well aware of this and why there is a non-partisan rise in home and self defense purchases. This doesn't really mean anything. It is no surprise that the perception of peril is at an all time high, given reporting on violent crime has dramatically increased over time, especially on right-leaning media. When there isn't anything sufficiently terrifying to report, stuff gets made up (e.g., immigrants eating pets). A fearful audience is more engaged, but perhaps more importantly, a fearful public is easier to manipulate.
      - fzeroracer 1y ago
        So if nobody knows the answer to this, why do you trust the federal government to have the answer to this? Why do you think military occupation is the solution?
  - jhanschoo 1y ago
    What personal experiences, reporting, or studies have led you to this belief? If you have them easily available, please share them so that they can convince others reading your comment as well.
  - thePhytochemist 1y ago
    Gun control is the main reason we have less violent crime in Canada. There is still violent crime here though, it's not a safe wonderland. There is often impunity given to certain people for serious but nonviolent crime like identity theft and selling schedule 1 narcotics (the most illegal kind of drug in Canada). They simply keep what they steal or the profit and are allowed to carry on even if there is clear proof in possession by law enforcement. I don't think an authoritarian response is really what we need but it does make a mockery of the criminal system when this is the policy. And the damage is real, with the victims left to just put the pieces back together on their own.
    - msgodel 1y ago
      There are plenty of guns in Canada. Last time I was there the local post office in the town I visited actually sold rifle cases. If you look at the US gun violence data the places that have gun control laws tend to be the ones with the highest rates of gun violence. It's cliche but it's true: guns don't kill people, people kill people. You need to ban violent people not guns.
- rolph 1y ago
  thats relative, it would be more enlightening to look at who is commiting what types of crime at what rate, then you would have useful information rather than a stark single metric of crime count. i.e. type and freq of crime cross with income and/or occupation.
  - chaps 1y ago
    The question wasn't asked to extract enlightenment. This person in particular does not trust statistics, so the question is aimed at understanding the edges of their lack of trust through Socratic-questioning. Like, I fundamentally disagree with everything they're saying and suggesting, but they're absolutely right that "crime statistics" are garbage and uncollected[1]. But their belief is so confident that crime in DC is so rampant that they feel that it's okay to send the national guard. That confidence comes from somewhere, so I'm trying to ink it out. [1] https://www.themarshallproject.org/2022/08/15/see-if-police-in-your-state-reported-crime-data-to-the-fbi https://www.themarshallproject.org/2022/08/15/see-if-police-...
ysavir 1y ago
What's your take on the article saying that D.C.'s crime rate is at a 30 year low? Do you feel that things in big cities are so bad that an overreach of powers is justified in an attempt to fix it?
- Bender 1y ago
  What's your take on the article saying that D.C.'s crime rate is at a 30 year low? I do not believe crime is accurately tracked [1]. Calling in the guard is not overreach when a city is demanding it through inaction. [1] - https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/dc-police-commander-suspended-crime-statistics/3959566/ https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/dc-police-commander...
  - ysavir 1y ago
    Thanks for sharing the link, I hadn't seen that before! Very serious allegations there. > Calling in the guard is not overreach when a city is demanding it through inaction. Is the city calling for protection, though? There's a big difference between police departments fabricating data and a need for intervention, whether through taking control of the city police or bringing in the national guard. What's the actual situation? Why is the Trump administration militarizing the city instead of running statistics to get actual crime numbers?
  - dttze 1y ago
    Supposedly. He was accused by the police union, who are known to lie for political reasons. Where is the evidence?
- lefstathiou 1y ago
  Is crime down because they are safer or because police have been told to stand down or see no point if the perp walks free an hour later? Bottom line, I am skeptical. Cities all over have de-criminalized crime, which makes the statistics untrustworthy.
  - piva00 1y ago
lefstathiou 1y ago
Agreed, I can't wait. It's this or they should install facial recognition cameras with social credit scores. Either way, something needs to happen. Not an exaggeration, I witness some physical escalation 3 out of 5 days a week between Union Square and Midtown NYC on my daily commute. 10 minutes ago a delivery guy and a pedestrian got into it when the bicyclist ran the red light and went into the cross walk while a swarm of people were walking through it. I've personally been accosted 3x while holding hands and walking my 5-year old son to school in completely "random" acts aggression. Strangely, it's not them trying to rob me, the aim is just to harass.
- CyberMacGyver 1y ago
  > Agreed, I can't wait. It's this or they should install facial recognition cameras with social credit scores. Either way, something needs to happen. Have you ever lived in a country or state with such utopia as you desire? What if the party you didn’t vote for has control over your social score ?
happytoexplain 1y ago
>most of my comments I clicked through five pages of your comment history and only saw one other grey comment besides this one (I have show-dead enabled). I suggest not doing the whole "this will get downvoted, but..." thing. It creates a tone of "I'm the underdog, who knows the uncomfortable truth".
- Bender 1y ago
  I get dog-piled when a post is active but yes over time people come back and it usually levels out. I am not complaining at all. It's more of a disclaimer that I might trigger someone. I edited my comment to say some.
happytoexplain 1y ago
I too want us to get much harsher on crime, but I think it's naive to portray Trump's use of force as anything but a boot on the throat of dissidents and protesters, an authoritarian show of force, a purposeful provocation of his political enemies in an attempt to escalate, etc. I.e. not an honest reaction to crime statistics, obviously. That would mean reform, not ephemeral military takeover.
xnx 1y ago
> given up on enforcing laws and in effect have decriminalized crime This is projection by the administration. Trump pardoned 237 people on his first day: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_granted_executive_clemency_in_the_first_presidency_of_Donald_Trump https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_granted_executi...
bediger4000 1y ago
Military occupation as a solution to a crime problem that either doesn't exist (if you believe the statistics) or is unknown and unknowable (if you don't) seems like a very bad thing. Advocating for military occupation under these circumstances seems like you've got some other motivation than tough on crime.