4 ms·

A good subtitle isn't a perfect copy of what was said.

herbcso 1y ago
Tom Scott would agree with you. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pU9sHwNKc2c https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pU9sHwNKc2c
kstrauser 1y ago
Hard disagree. When I'm reading a transcript, I want word-for-word what the people said, not a creative edit. I want the speakers' voice, not the transcriptionist's. And when I'm watching subtitles in my own language (say because I want the volume low so I'm not disturbing others), I hate when the words I see don't match the words I hear. It's the quickest way I can imagine to get sucked out of the content and into awareness of the delivery of the content.
- stavros 1y ago
  But then what about deliberate mishearings and ambiguous speech, like the GP said?
- crazygringo 1y ago
  I mean, subtitles are mostly the same. Sometimes they're edited down simply for space, because there wouldn't be time to easily read all the dialog otherwise. And sometimes repetition of words or phrases is removed, because it's clearer, and the emphasis is obvious from watching the moving image. And filler words like "uh" or "um" generally aren't included unless they were in the original script. Most interestingly, swearing is sometimes toned down, just by skipping it -- removing an f-word in a sentence or similar. Not out of any kind of puritanism, but because swear words genuinely come across as more powerful in print than they do in speech. What sounds right when spoken can sometimes look like too much in print. Subtitles are an art. Determining when to best time them, how to split up long sentences, how to handle different speakers, how to handle repetition, how to handle limited space. I used to want subtitles that were perfectly faithful to what was spoken. Then I actually got involved in making subtitles at one point, and was very surprised to discover that perfectly faithful subtitles didn't actually do the best job of communicating meaning. Fictional subtitles aren't court transcripts. They serve the purpose of storytelling, which is the combination of a visible moving image full of emotion and action, and the subtitles. Their interplay is complex.
  - nomdep 1y ago
    Hard and vehemently disagree. Subtitles are not commentary tracks. The artists are the writers, voice actors, and everyone else involved in creating the original media. Never, ever, a random stranger should contaminate it with his/her opinions or point of views. Subtitles should be perfect transcriptions or the most accurate translations, never reinterpretations
    - crazygringo 1y ago
      Nobody said subtitles are commentary tracks. And official subtitles aren't made by random strangers. They're made by people who do it professionally. It's not "contamination" or "opinions", like somebody is injecting political views! And certainly not "reinterpretation". Goodness. It's about clarity, that's all. Also there's no such thing as the "most accurate" translations. Translations themselves are an art, hugely.
- creesch 1y ago
  > When I'm reading a transcript That's the thing though, subtitles aren't intended as full transcripts. They are intended to allow a wide variety of people to follow the content. A lot of people read slower than they would hear speech. So subtitles often need to condense or rephrase speech to keep pace with the video. The goal is usually to convey meaning clearly within the time available on screen. Not to capture every single word. If they tried to be fully verbatim, you'd either have subtitles disappearing before most viewers could finish reading them or large blocks of text covering the screen. Subtitlers also have to account for things like overlapping dialogue, filler words, and false starts, which can make exact transcriptions harder to read and more distracting in a visual medium. I mean, yeah in your own native language I agree it sort of sucks if you can still hear the spoken words as well. But, to be frank, you are also the minority group here as far as subtitle target audiences go. And to be honest, if they were fully verbatim, I'd wager you quickly would be annoyed as well. Simply because you will notice how much attention they then draw, making you less able to actually view the content.
  - iczero 1y ago
    I regularly enable YouTube subtitles. Almost always, they are a 100% verbatim transcription, excluding errors from auto-transcription. I am not annoyed in the slightest, and in fact I very much prefer that they are verbatim. If you are too slow at reading subtitles, you can either slow down the video or train yourself to read faster. Or you can just disable the subtitles.
    - creesch 1y ago
      > If you are too slow at reading subtitles, you can either slow down the video or train yourself to read faster. Or you can just disable the subtitles. That's just plain tone deaf, plain and simple. I was not talking about myself, or just youtube. You are not everyone else, your use case is not everyone else their use case. It really isn't that difficult.
      - cwmoore 1y ago
        You made a bet and lost. Things are difficult.
numpad0 1y ago
Aren't same-language subtitles supposed to be perfect literal transcripts, while cross-language subtitling is supposed to be compressed creative interpretations?

Tom Scott would agree with you. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pU9sHwNKc2c https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pU9sHwNKc2c

Hard disagree. When I'm reading a transcript, I want word-for-word what the people said, not a creative edit. I want the speakers' voice, not the transcriptionist's. And when I'm watching subtitles in my own language (say because I want the volume low so I'm not disturbing others), I hate when the words I see don't match the words I hear. It's the quickest way I can imagine to get sucked out of the content and into awareness of the delivery of the content.

stavros 1y ago
But then what about deliberate mishearings and ambiguous speech, like the GP said?
crazygringo 1y ago
I mean, subtitles are mostly the same. Sometimes they're edited down simply for space, because there wouldn't be time to easily read all the dialog otherwise. And sometimes repetition of words or phrases is removed, because it's clearer, and the emphasis is obvious from watching the moving image. And filler words like "uh" or "um" generally aren't included unless they were in the original script. Most interestingly, swearing is sometimes toned down, just by skipping it -- removing an f-word in a sentence or similar. Not out of any kind of puritanism, but because swear words genuinely come across as more powerful in print than they do in speech. What sounds right when spoken can sometimes look like too much in print. Subtitles are an art. Determining when to best time them, how to split up long sentences, how to handle different speakers, how to handle repetition, how to handle limited space. I used to want subtitles that were perfectly faithful to what was spoken. Then I actually got involved in making subtitles at one point, and was very surprised to discover that perfectly faithful subtitles didn't actually do the best job of communicating meaning. Fictional subtitles aren't court transcripts. They serve the purpose of storytelling, which is the combination of a visible moving image full of emotion and action, and the subtitles. Their interplay is complex.
- nomdep 1y ago
  Hard and vehemently disagree. Subtitles are not commentary tracks. The artists are the writers, voice actors, and everyone else involved in creating the original media. Never, ever, a random stranger should contaminate it with his/her opinions or point of views. Subtitles should be perfect transcriptions or the most accurate translations, never reinterpretations
  - crazygringo 1y ago
    Nobody said subtitles are commentary tracks. And official subtitles aren't made by random strangers. They're made by people who do it professionally. It's not "contamination" or "opinions", like somebody is injecting political views! And certainly not "reinterpretation". Goodness. It's about clarity, that's all. Also there's no such thing as the "most accurate" translations. Translations themselves are an art, hugely.
creesch 1y ago
> When I'm reading a transcript That's the thing though, subtitles aren't intended as full transcripts. They are intended to allow a wide variety of people to follow the content. A lot of people read slower than they would hear speech. So subtitles often need to condense or rephrase speech to keep pace with the video. The goal is usually to convey meaning clearly within the time available on screen. Not to capture every single word. If they tried to be fully verbatim, you'd either have subtitles disappearing before most viewers could finish reading them or large blocks of text covering the screen. Subtitlers also have to account for things like overlapping dialogue, filler words, and false starts, which can make exact transcriptions harder to read and more distracting in a visual medium. I mean, yeah in your own native language I agree it sort of sucks if you can still hear the spoken words as well. But, to be frank, you are also the minority group here as far as subtitle target audiences go. And to be honest, if they were fully verbatim, I'd wager you quickly would be annoyed as well. Simply because you will notice how much attention they then draw, making you less able to actually view the content.
- iczero 1y ago
  I regularly enable YouTube subtitles. Almost always, they are a 100% verbatim transcription, excluding errors from auto-transcription. I am not annoyed in the slightest, and in fact I very much prefer that they are verbatim. If you are too slow at reading subtitles, you can either slow down the video or train yourself to read faster. Or you can just disable the subtitles.
  - creesch 1y ago
    > If you are too slow at reading subtitles, you can either slow down the video or train yourself to read faster. Or you can just disable the subtitles. That's just plain tone deaf, plain and simple. I was not talking about myself, or just youtube. You are not everyone else, your use case is not everyone else their use case. It really isn't that difficult.
    - cwmoore 1y ago
      You made a bet and lost. Things are difficult.

numpad0 1y ago

Aren't same-language subtitles supposed to be perfect literal transcripts, while cross-language subtitling is supposed to be compressed creative interpretations?