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Everyone living in a western nation today is a direct beneficiary of empire. Ask them to swap their standard of living with that of someone living without the

Everyone living in a western nation today is a direct beneficiary of empire. Ask them to swap their standard of living with that of someone living without the influence of empire and you'll get nothing but hard stares.

bigyabai 1y ago
250 years ago, every American was a beneficiary of slavery too. Help remind me how that one ended, will you?
- saintjavelina 1y ago
  [flagged]
- anonym29 1y ago
  I don't think this is your point, but semantically, doesn't this necessarily assert that either: 1. African Americans were not Americans, or 2. African Americans, the victims of slavery, somehow benefited from it? I would disagree with both of those assertions. Further, consider that a vast majority (90%+) did not own slaves. Were non-slave-owners beneficiaries of slavery? What about poor, unskilled whites, who had their own wages effectively suppressed due to the negligible labor costs of slavery - were they really net beneficiaries of slavery? They certainly were not the main victims, but that doesn't automatically make them beneficiaries, either. Slavery was overwhelmingly a horrific practice by wealthy elites for wealthy elites, not by all white people for all white people.
- busterarm 1y ago
  It ended with one half of a country being so mad about their standard of living changing that they had a bloody civil war about it. You're proving my point entirely. I was never talking about right or wrong, I was talking about whether people are willing to sacrifice their standard of living substantially just to be "right" about something.
esseph 1y ago
Now realize there are 8 billion people on the planet, and the 95.6% of people are... really tired, and really upset with the 4.4% of that empire.
- busterarm 1y ago
  So you only care about one specific empire then. Got it.
OrvalWintermute 1y ago
The US federal budget goes to: (based on FY 2025 budget proposal ) category, billions, % of federal spending Social Security 1,543 21.2% Medicare 936 12.9% Medicaid 589 8.1% Food Stamps (SNAP) 94 1.3% WIC 8 0.1% Section 8 33 0.5% Defense 900 12.4% Other Entitlement Programs 1,168 16.1% Other Agencies (Non-Defense Discretionary) 1,029 14.2%
- lesuorac 1y ago
  Where's interest payments? Based on their omission I assume you're computing these numbers with them split out but it hardly seems fair to say you're spending "900" on defense when the total cost of paying that "900" is going to be much more since you had to borrow. It's like saying a house only costs 1M when you end up paying over 1M in interest as well as the principal for 2M.
  - OrvalWintermute 1y ago
    oops.... Net_Interest $965 billion, 13.3%
ixtli 1y ago
This isn’t the gotchya you think it is and I don’t think the majority of people who benefit from empire aren’t aware. The violation of common sense here is the notion that 1) these people are living the good life and 2) removal of empire would result in worse standard of living.

bigyabai 1y ago

250 years ago, every American was a beneficiary of slavery too. Help remind me how that one ended, will you?

saintjavelina 1y ago
[flagged]
anonym29 1y ago
I don't think this is your point, but semantically, doesn't this necessarily assert that either: 1. African Americans were not Americans, or 2. African Americans, the victims of slavery, somehow benefited from it? I would disagree with both of those assertions. Further, consider that a vast majority (90%+) did not own slaves. Were non-slave-owners beneficiaries of slavery? What about poor, unskilled whites, who had their own wages effectively suppressed due to the negligible labor costs of slavery - were they really net beneficiaries of slavery? They certainly were not the main victims, but that doesn't automatically make them beneficiaries, either. Slavery was overwhelmingly a horrific practice by wealthy elites for wealthy elites, not by all white people for all white people.
busterarm 1y ago
It ended with one half of a country being so mad about their standard of living changing that they had a bloody civil war about it. You're proving my point entirely. I was never talking about right or wrong, I was talking about whether people are willing to sacrifice their standard of living substantially just to be "right" about something.

esseph 1y ago

Now realize there are 8 billion people on the planet, and the 95.6% of people are... really tired, and really upset with the 4.4% of that empire.

busterarm 1y ago
So you only care about one specific empire then. Got it.

OrvalWintermute 1y ago

The US federal budget goes to: (based on FY 2025 budget proposal ) category, billions, % of federal spending Social Security 1,543 21.2% Medicare 936 12.9% Medicaid 589 8.1% Food Stamps (SNAP) 94 1.3% WIC 8 0.1% Section 8 33 0.5% Defense 900 12.4% Other Entitlement Programs 1,168 16.1% Other Agencies (Non-Defense Discretionary) 1,029 14.2%

lesuorac 1y ago
Where's interest payments? Based on their omission I assume you're computing these numbers with them split out but it hardly seems fair to say you're spending "900" on defense when the total cost of paying that "900" is going to be much more since you had to borrow. It's like saying a house only costs 1M when you end up paying over 1M in interest as well as the principal for 2M.
- OrvalWintermute 1y ago
  oops.... Net_Interest $965 billion, 13.3%

ixtli 1y ago

This isn’t the gotchya you think it is and I don’t think the majority of people who benefit from empire aren’t aware. The violation of common sense here is the notion that 1) these people are living the good life and 2) removal of empire would result in worse standard of living.