3 ms·

Whats the rebuttal to UBI just causing massive inflation again?

JKCalhoun 1y ago
I've never been a fan of UBI (and I'm often downvoted for that, ha ha). I like the idea of mandating an 18 hour work week or similar though. It still keeps the incentive to work — still rewards those who want to achieve more. One wonders though what impact that will have on society — so much additional free time. More television binging? I hope not.
- edoceo 1y ago
  Why do folk "need" to work? To justify their existence? Don't we have a duty of care for fellow humans?
  - cwmoore 1y ago
    Many people work so that other people don’t let them starve or put them in prison.
  - AnimalMuppet 1y ago
    Folk need to work to justify their existence to themselves. Just yesterday, there was an article here about why people feel bad about themselves when they aren't being productive. Our own psychology aside, people need to work because at present robots cannot make all the stuff we want. So if we (society as a whole) want all this stuff, then we need to work. We have a duty to treat our fellow humans with dignity and humanity. I'm not sure that extends to providing for those who can work but won't, though - not when there's work that society as a whole needs done.
  - JKCalhoun 1y ago
    Curiously, and this is probably just me, but I find I need to work in order to enjoy (value) my leisure time. Odd, I know.
    - selfhoster11 1y ago
      OK, then work. If I enjoyed 5:30am wake-up times, I wouldn't require others to replicate it.
      - JKCalhoun 1y ago
        To be sure. I was only answering as to why I find I need some sort of work.
  - ponector 1y ago
    That is an American mindset: your job makes who you are. Like you have no identity without a job. Mainly because without a job you loose health insurance, housing, everything.
  - JKCalhoun 1y ago
    I am not seeing how the two are mutually exclusive. I think there needs to be a pretty fundamental shift in society for us to continue to function if, for example, everyone was essentially on welfare. Not sure what they are supposed to all be doing in the "Star Trek universe" for example. Somehow "Logan's Run" comes to mind — you know, if we actually still got together with each other. ;-)
logicchains 1y ago
I'm not a fan of UBI, but long term inflation is primarily determined by money creation rates. If UBI was funded by taxes, not printing, then we wouldn't expect any significant effect on long term inflation rates, although there might be some disruption in the short term.
- amilios 1y ago
  I mean is it determined by money creation, or just influenced by/one of the factors? If business perceive people generally having more spending money, won't they raise prices accordingly?
  - johnecheck 1y ago
    Shouldn't they lose to a competitor who's happy to keep the lower margin and dominate the market? If not, I'd call that a failure of anti-trust law, not UBI.
    - amilios 1y ago
      What if everyone raises prices simultaneously proportional to the UBI?
      - quesera 1y ago
        In the absence of collusion, if a business can produce a product or service less expensively, giving them the ability to outcompete competitors, they will do so.
        amilios 1y ago
        Even if UBI is funded by taxation, rather than deficit spending, isn't it possible that demand will increase for some products (e.g. basic necessities that UBI recipients will suddenly be able to spend more on), causing inflationary pressure on the prices of those products?
johnecheck 1y ago
UBI is just wealth flowing from the government to all individuals. The goal is redistribution. As a government, you can explicitly specify who wealth is being taken from by paying for UBI in taxes. If you don't raise taxes to balance the budget, your choice is between kicking the can down the road with debt or printing money. Printing money is really just another form of redistribution drawn from the wealth of everyone holding that currency. Naturally, doing so can lead to a crisis of confidence where the value of the currency collapses as people flee to other assets that are less likely to be devalued. UBI, like any government spending, needs to be paid for. By taxes or financial disaster. I prefer taxes, personally.
waynesonfire 1y ago
UBI is a more efficient allocation of already existing government services. Instead of a program for each and ever need a person may have, they're just given cash and those programs would be deprecated. It's more efficient. The rebuttal is sourced from those that have existing vested interest that these antiquated piece-meal programs continue to operate.

I've never been a fan of UBI (and I'm often downvoted for that, ha ha). I like the idea of mandating an 18 hour work week or similar though. It still keeps the incentive to work — still rewards those who want to achieve more. One wonders though what impact that will have on society — so much additional free time. More television binging? I hope not.

edoceo 1y ago
Why do folk "need" to work? To justify their existence? Don't we have a duty of care for fellow humans?
- cwmoore 1y ago
  Many people work so that other people don’t let them starve or put them in prison.
- AnimalMuppet 1y ago
  Folk need to work to justify their existence to themselves. Just yesterday, there was an article here about why people feel bad about themselves when they aren't being productive. Our own psychology aside, people need to work because at present robots cannot make all the stuff we want. So if we (society as a whole) want all this stuff, then we need to work. We have a duty to treat our fellow humans with dignity and humanity. I'm not sure that extends to providing for those who can work but won't, though - not when there's work that society as a whole needs done.
- JKCalhoun 1y ago
  Curiously, and this is probably just me, but I find I need to work in order to enjoy (value) my leisure time. Odd, I know.
  - selfhoster11 1y ago
    OK, then work. If I enjoyed 5:30am wake-up times, I wouldn't require others to replicate it.
    - JKCalhoun 1y ago
      To be sure. I was only answering as to why I find I need some sort of work.
- ponector 1y ago
  That is an American mindset: your job makes who you are. Like you have no identity without a job. Mainly because without a job you loose health insurance, housing, everything.
- JKCalhoun 1y ago
  I am not seeing how the two are mutually exclusive. I think there needs to be a pretty fundamental shift in society for us to continue to function if, for example, everyone was essentially on welfare. Not sure what they are supposed to all be doing in the "Star Trek universe" for example. Somehow "Logan's Run" comes to mind — you know, if we actually still got together with each other. ;-)

logicchains 1y ago

I'm not a fan of UBI, but long term inflation is primarily determined by money creation rates. If UBI was funded by taxes, not printing, then we wouldn't expect any significant effect on long term inflation rates, although there might be some disruption in the short term.

amilios 1y ago
I mean is it determined by money creation, or just influenced by/one of the factors? If business perceive people generally having more spending money, won't they raise prices accordingly?
- johnecheck 1y ago
  Shouldn't they lose to a competitor who's happy to keep the lower margin and dominate the market? If not, I'd call that a failure of anti-trust law, not UBI.
  - amilios 1y ago
    What if everyone raises prices simultaneously proportional to the UBI?
    - quesera 1y ago
      In the absence of collusion, if a business can produce a product or service less expensively, giving them the ability to outcompete competitors, they will do so.
      - amilios 1y ago
        Even if UBI is funded by taxation, rather than deficit spending, isn't it possible that demand will increase for some products (e.g. basic necessities that UBI recipients will suddenly be able to spend more on), causing inflationary pressure on the prices of those products?

johnecheck 1y ago

UBI is just wealth flowing from the government to all individuals. The goal is redistribution. As a government, you can explicitly specify who wealth is being taken from by paying for UBI in taxes. If you don't raise taxes to balance the budget, your choice is between kicking the can down the road with debt or printing money. Printing money is really just another form of redistribution drawn from the wealth of everyone holding that currency. Naturally, doing so can lead to a crisis of confidence where the value of the currency collapses as people flee to other assets that are less likely to be devalued. UBI, like any government spending, needs to be paid for. By taxes or financial disaster. I prefer taxes, personally.

waynesonfire 1y ago

UBI is a more efficient allocation of already existing government services. Instead of a program for each and ever need a person may have, they're just given cash and those programs would be deprecated. It's more efficient. The rebuttal is sourced from those that have existing vested interest that these antiquated piece-meal programs continue to operate.