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The video says the regulation was written 50 years ago, and just says "operators must be stationed at the controls". Autonomous tractors were not commercially a

The video says the regulation was written 50 years ago, and just says "operators must be stationed at the controls". Autonomous tractors were not commercially available yet, it's just a well-intentioned safety regulation that needs to updated now.

tantalor 1y ago
Does it define "stationed" and "controls"? If the automated tractor is remotely controlled by my smartphone (IANAF) in my pocket, does that count?
- burkaman 1y ago
  https://www.dir.ca.gov/title8/3441.html https://www.dir.ca.gov/title8/3441.html It says: "All self-propelled equipment shall, when under its own power and in motion, have an operator stationed at the vehicular controls. This shall not prohibit the operator occupying or being stationed at a location on the vehicle other than the normal driving position or cab if controls for starting, accelerating, decelerating and stopping are provided adjacent and convenient to the alternate position." So you do explicitly need to be physically on the vehicle at all times while it's moving. It has further rules for remotely operating "Furrow guided self-propelled mobile equipment" (which is not how modern autonomous tractors work), but even for those you need to be actively watching it and have immediate access to steering and braking controls.
  - tantalor 1y ago
    This seems to open the door to operators not being literally in the driver's seat. I think "location on the vehicle" could reasonably be interpreted as including virtual locations. For example a drone operator is physically in a little room somewhere but they are in actuality operating controls that fulfill all of those requirements remotely. It's not hard to go from there to "I can press the stop button on my phone whenever I want" so I am effectively "stationed at the vehicular controls".
    - burkaman 1y ago
      That is not how laws work. "could be interpreted" doesn't matter when there is one clearly stated and intended interpretation.
    - snypher 1y ago
      >stationed at a location on the vehicle Seems pretty important in this context. This law probably exists to stop people getting crushed by jumping off while the tractor is in reverse to hook a grain bin.
s1artibartfast 1y ago
There is all kind of automation possible, and was in the 70s too. for example, you could do the whole thing mechanically without a singe chip. a few hydraulic levers and some guide wires and you have a 20,000lb tractor that runs up and down rows.

tantalor 1y ago

Does it define "stationed" and "controls"? If the automated tractor is remotely controlled by my smartphone (IANAF) in my pocket, does that count?

burkaman 1y ago
https://www.dir.ca.gov/title8/3441.html https://www.dir.ca.gov/title8/3441.html It says: "All self-propelled equipment shall, when under its own power and in motion, have an operator stationed at the vehicular controls. This shall not prohibit the operator occupying or being stationed at a location on the vehicle other than the normal driving position or cab if controls for starting, accelerating, decelerating and stopping are provided adjacent and convenient to the alternate position." So you do explicitly need to be physically on the vehicle at all times while it's moving. It has further rules for remotely operating "Furrow guided self-propelled mobile equipment" (which is not how modern autonomous tractors work), but even for those you need to be actively watching it and have immediate access to steering and braking controls.
- tantalor 1y ago
  This seems to open the door to operators not being literally in the driver's seat. I think "location on the vehicle" could reasonably be interpreted as including virtual locations. For example a drone operator is physically in a little room somewhere but they are in actuality operating controls that fulfill all of those requirements remotely. It's not hard to go from there to "I can press the stop button on my phone whenever I want" so I am effectively "stationed at the vehicular controls".
  - burkaman 1y ago
    That is not how laws work. "could be interpreted" doesn't matter when there is one clearly stated and intended interpretation.
  - snypher 1y ago
    >stationed at a location on the vehicle Seems pretty important in this context. This law probably exists to stop people getting crushed by jumping off while the tractor is in reverse to hook a grain bin.

s1artibartfast 1y ago

There is all kind of automation possible, and was in the 70s too. for example, you could do the whole thing mechanically without a singe chip. a few hydraulic levers and some guide wires and you have a 20,000lb tractor that runs up and down rows.