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The Factory Timezone
- Towaway69 1y agoAnd I thought this was a timezone to be used exclusively in factories - something like “always use utc on a server”, I thought this was meant to be used in factories!
- bravesoul2 1y agoFactory time zone is UTC+2 in the morning then switches to UTC-2 in the afternoon.
- xp84 1y agoI see what you did there
- randyrand 1y agoI use UTC-15 as my factory timezone :) Currently, no country uses that. And it has the nice property of making time go forward when it’s configured.
- codingminds 1y agoExplanation from https://lists.iana.org/hyperkitty/list/tz@iana.org/thread/EXQVDBTCYD4TR2QYQAY4726KDRYAJ6GT/ https://lists.iana.org/hyperkitty/list/tz@iana.org/thread/EX... > It is intended for use as a factory default, to clearly indicate an unconfigured system rather than one that is intentionally configured to run on UTC.
- wodenokoto 1y agoSo its a valid time zone used to indicate that the clock is off?
- jon-wood 1y agoA valid time zone used to indicate that the clock isn't configured yet. It may be accurate to UTC, but the offset shouldn't be trusted.
- DaiPlusPlus 1y agoA clock can exist in more states than just "UTC with unconfigured local offset" and "maybe-local-maybe UTC, but at least it's configured!" - what about "Dallas RTC battery died, lol" or "we honestly have no idea because we use GPS for UTC, but China/Russia/etc are conducting GPS spoofing"? ...the way I see it, 1980s VCRs got it right the first time with "+00:00" on a flashing VFD display, taunting you to re-set it again - all because someone unplugged it by mistake (dumb-question: why couldn't VCRs get the time from the TV signal?). (What I mean, is that I think all systems (hardware and software) around the world just should standardize on flashing a message simply reading "+00:00" for all unintentional clock states. Clocks are one thing that I feel should not feature graceful-degradation - consider that's the whole origin of the idiom that "a stopped clock is still correct twice a day"; I'd very much rather a stopped-clock's hands broke-off entirely instead of risking it being misinterpreted by people who think the clock works just fine but they themselves have a bad case of saccade chronostasis[1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronostasis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronostasis
- netsharc 1y ago> dumb-question: why couldn't VCRs get the time from the TV signal? Later VCRs have that feature... Huh, but a computer without time would be confusing indeed. A process would ask the OS, "What time is it?", "0:00", it can't even sleep for 5 seconds because the hardware clock will never tell the OS "it's 0:00:05 now" -- if the OS counts itself (doing something rudimentary like, "well it's a 1 GHz CPU, let's increment the counter every billion cycles"), then it's implemented a clock!
- Horffupolde 1y agoOS have millisecond uptime counters.
- DaiPlusPlus 1y ago> to clearly indicate an unconfigured system rather than one that is intentionally configured to run on UTC ...everything should be based on UTC though!
- defrost 1y agoTinder dates and market moves, maybe. Real time scientific, physics, and engineering data acquisition and processing applications? Goodness no. Certainly nothing that might want to generate a waypoint heading update via a division of elapsed time. Not with those random UTC leap seconds that can go either way (although, until now, they've all fallen in one direction). There's a reason serious real time real world data processing goes with epoch based time, lapsed time since <mark>, it has the nice feature of being monotonically increasing.
- poly2it 1y agoSomething which bugs me about UNIX time is that, contradictory to its colloquial name (epoch time), UNIX time does not increase linearly and does funny stuff on leap seconds.
- defrost 1y agoUNIX time is _an_ example of a type of epoch time, with extra rules and conditions. Not all epoch time counters are UNIX time though. The usual case, when referring to an epoch time counter being used, is a uniform, increasing count of elapsed time in a standard fixed length unit (seconds, cycles, orbits, etc.).
- cluckindan 1y agoEven CLOCK_MONOTONIC doesn’t increase linearly, it is affected by NTP updates. Apparently newer Linux kernels support CLOCK_MONOTONIC_RAW which is not affected by NTP, but even that may not increase linearly: it’s not updated when the system is in standby. Then there is also CLOCK_BOOTTIME which is monotonic and accounts for time spent in standby. Neither of these seem to be POSIX standardised, though.
- jgalt212 1y agoSort of like Django defaulting to Chicago time.
- echoangle 1y agoFor me, the latest django defaults to "TIME_ZONE = 'UTC'" in the settings.py.
- jgalt212 1y agoI wonder what version they swapped it.
- throw0101a 1y ago"settings.py" is your local configuration. The global default is still Chicago: * https://github.com/django/django/blob/main/django/conf/global_settings.py#L41 https://github.com/django/django/blob/main/django/conf/globa...
- echoangle 1y agosettings.py is automatically generated when creating a new project and overrides this global default. If you create a new django project and run it, it uses UTC.
- xp84 1y ago> unconfigured system Does this mean: 1. a system which believes it has an accurate idea what the current UTC time is, but doesn't know where it is on Earth (or where its operator conceptually wants it to pretend it is)? 2. Or a system which has had its clock set manually, but its TZ has never been set (therefore it has no idea what the UTC time is, and therefore cannot reliably generate or store a valid time with offset. 3. Or a system which knows both its clock and its TZ have never been set? For the first one, it seems silly, since as long as you're recording correct timestamps, fixing the display timezone later is easy and nondestructive. For 2 it seems like the OS should require setting TZ to set a time. For 3, I suppose this is actually mildly useful, since it's easy for an OS to detect if you have inited the RTC from its original starting point, and specially flagging datetimes stored while it's in that state could help to clean them up later when the correct time is known.
- willvarfar 1y agoTrivia: a long time ago when an sqlite file was found on the iphone that has a full location history, some random HNer connected with me to make a web app that let the user see their location history if they uploaded their file. And IIRC all iphones had a first test GPS fix from somewhere in the mid US. We speculated that it was part of a factory quality check or something.
- randomfool 1y agoSounds more like https://theweek.com/articles/624040/how-internet-mapping-glitch-turned-kansas-farm-into-digital-hell https://theweek.com/articles/624040/how-internet-mapping-gli...
- boredpudding 1y agoThat's turning locations into coordinates (ip geolocation). It's to be expected that the gps log only bases their logs on the coordinates from the GPS from the phone.
- netsharc 1y agoIt'd be more practical to have a faraday cage and several GPS transmitters to spoof a location (let's say 33.783, -118.14899); turn on the device, if it tells you it's located at 33.783, -118.14899, then it's GPS receiver is working correctly, anywhere else, then there's something wrong... Reminds me of an anecdote that getting a rideshare in Moscow is difficult nowadays, because GPS for the whole city is jammed and the driver won't be able to find you.
- taneq 1y agoGM Island IRL. :D
- jonathanlydall 1y agoAs in WoW’s GM Island? (Which was way more boring than most people might expect, unless you were a GM and could see the hundreds of GM WoW avatars standing at precisely the same coordinates.)
- pveierland 1y agoAnother fun "timezone" is the "Anywhere on Earth" designation referring to when a time has passed everywhere on Earth. It does not seem to be referenced in the IANA database though :) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anywhere_on_Earth https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anywhere_on_Earth
- xp84 1y agoWe need some island nation to adopt a -72:00:00 time zone, so they people can book a flight there to beat deadlines defined as AoE.