9 ms·

This is pretty concerning, especially as FDroid is by far the largest non-google android store at the moment, something that I feel is really needed, regardless

This is pretty concerning, especially as FDroid is by far the largest non-google android store at the moment, something that I feel is really needed, regardless of your feelings about google. Does anyone know of plans to resolve this? Will FDroid update their servers? Are google looking into rolling back the requirement? (this last one sounds unlikely)

dannyw 1y ago
I agree it’s a bit concerning but please keep in mind F-Droid is a volunteer-run community project. Especially with some EU countries moving to open source software, it would be nice to see some public funding for projects like F-Droid.
- nativeforks 1y ago
  > Nice to see some public funding for projects like F-Droid Definitely, SSE4.1 instruction set based CPU, for building apps in 2025, No way!!
- benrutter 1y ago
  Hope I didn't come across as criticising FDroid here- It seems sucky to have build requirements change under your feet. It's just I think that FDroid is an important project, and hope this doesn't block their progress.
- berkes 1y ago
  > please keep in mind F-Droid is a volunteer-run community project. To, me, that's the worrying part. Not that it's ran by volunteers. But that all there's left between a full-on "tech monopoly" or hegemony, and a free internet, is small bands of underfunded volunteers. Opposition to market dominance and monopolies by multibillion multinationals shouldn't just come from a few volunteers. If that's the case, just roll over and give up; the cause is lost. (As I've done, hence my defaitism) Aside from that: it being "a volunteer ran community" shouldn't be put as an excuse for why it's in trouble/has poor UX/is hard to use/is behind/etc. It should be a killer feature. Something that makes it more resilient/better attuned/easier/earlier adopting/etc.
  - camdroidw 1y ago
    Google has recently lost two cases against DoJ, keeping fingers crossed that Android will be divestituted.
    - shadowgovt 1y ago
      It's interesting to me how people panicked about the idea that 23AndMe's bankruptcy implies that some unknown, untrusted third-party will have their genetic information, but people are also crowing at the idea that a company that has purchase history on all your smartphone apps (and their permissions, and app data backup) could be compelled by the government to divest that function to some unknown, untrusted third-party.
  - Dr4kn 1y ago
    The EU governments should gradually start switching to open source solutions. New software projects should be open source by default and only closed if there is a real reason for it. The EU is already home to many OS contributors and companies. I like the Red Hat approach where you are profitable, but with open source solutions. It's great for governments because you get support, but it's much easier to compete, which reduces prices. Smaller companies also give more of their money to open source. Bigger companies can always fork it and develop it internally and can therefore pressure devs to do work for less. Smaller companies have to rely on the projects to keep going and doing it all in house would be way too expensive for most.
    - FMecha 1y ago
      idk if you meant this, but I thought of F-Droid and other major open source projects being publicly funded by EU.
    - ethbr1 1y ago
      > I like the Red Hat approach where you are profitable, but with open source solutions. The Red Hat that was bought by IBM? I agree with your goals, but the devil is in the methods. If we want governments to support open source, the appropriate method is probably a legislative requirement for an open source license + a requirement to fund the developer.
charcircuit 1y ago
>FDroid is by far the largest non-google android store at the moment Samsung Galaxy Store is much much bigger.
- benrutter 1y ago
  Yup! I missed that one because I didn't realise it still existed. Woops!
- ozim 1y ago
  Largest not run by the corporations then ;)
- ykonstant 1y ago
  Funny true story: I got my first smartphone in 2018, a Samsung Galaxy A5. I have it to this day, and it is the only smartphone I ever used. This is the first time I hear about Samsung Galaxy store! (≧▽≦)
Jyaif 1y ago
> FDroid is by far the largest non-google android store at the moment Not even sure it's in the top 10
- benrutter 1y ago
  Wait really? What other ones are there!? Somebody's already pointed out Samsumg Galaxy store, but I don't think I know of others? Edit: searching online found this if anyone else is interested https://www.androidauthority.com/best-app-stores-936652/ https://www.androidauthority.com/best-app-stores-936652/
  - magnio 1y ago
    There are at least six Android app stores in China that have more than 100 million MAUs each: Huawei AppGallery, Tencent MyApp, Xiaomi Mi Store (or GetApps), Oppo, Vivo, and Honor stores.
    - IceWreck 1y ago
      Huawei and Honor are seperate app stores? And Oppo and Vivo too? In both instances one company owns the other - why have competing app stores?
      - npn 1y ago
        Because some dumbass decided to ban Huawei before, forcing Chinese brands to split itself to multiple sub brandings that operate independently.
        TiredOfLife 1y ago
        Huawei was banned because some dumbass at Huawei decided that sanction skirting was worth it
        ethbr1 1y ago
happosai 1y ago
Maybe if f-droid is important to you, donate, so they can buy newer build server?
- ratdragon 1y ago
  Did and doing regularly.
- benrutter 1y ago
  I'm not quite sure if I'm over reading into this, but this comes across as a snarky response as if I've said "boo, fdroid sucks and owes me a free app store!". Appologies if I came across like that, here's what I'm trying to convey: - Fdroid is important - This sounds like a problem, not necessarily one that's any fault of fdroid - Does anyone know of a plan to fix the issue? For what it's worth, I do donate on a monthly basis to fdroid through liberapay, but I don't think that's really relevant here?
  - happosai 1y ago
    You are right, my message comes through as too snarky. What I wanted to give is an actionable item for the readers here.
- nativeforks 1y ago
  This has now become a major issue for F-Droid, as well as for FOSS app developers. People are starting to complain about devs because they haven't been able to release the new version for their apps (at least it doesn't show up on F-Droid) as promised
- chasil 1y ago
  Is Westmere the minimum architecture needed for the required SSE? Server hardware at the minimum v2 functionality can be found for a few hundred dollars. A competent administrator with physical access could solve this quickly. Take a ReaR image, then restore it on the new platform. Where are the physical servers?
  - 1y ago
lucb1e 1y ago
> Are google looking into rolling back the requirement? (this last one sounds unlikely) That's apparently what they did last time. From the ticket: "Back in 2021 developers complained that AAPT2 from Gradle Plugin 4.1.0 was throwing errors while the older 4.0.2 worked fine. \n The issue was that 4.1.0 wanted a CPU which supports SSSE3 and on the older CPUs it would fail. \n This was fixed for Gradle Plugin 4.2.0-rc01 / Gradle 7.0.0 alpha 9"
1oooqooq 1y ago
why you read "google build tools cannot be built from source and it was compiled with an optional optimizations as required" and assume the right thing to do is to buy newer servers?
- benrutter 1y ago
  I'm not assuming anything, this is from a ticket for fdroid on google: > Our machines run older server grade CPUs, that indeed do not support the newer SSE4_1 and SSSE3.[0] I.e. the problem is because fdroid have older CPUs, newer ones would be able to build. I only mentioned it in terms of what the plans to fix might be. I have zero idea if upgrading servers is the best way to go. [0] https://issuetracker.google.com/issues/438515318?pli=1 https://issuetracker.google.com/issues/438515318?pli=1
Suppafly 1y ago
>This is pretty concerning, especially as FDroid is by far the largest non-google android store at the moment That's almost certainly not true.

dannyw 1y ago

I agree it’s a bit concerning but please keep in mind F-Droid is a volunteer-run community project. Especially with some EU countries moving to open source software, it would be nice to see some public funding for projects like F-Droid.

nativeforks 1y ago
> Nice to see some public funding for projects like F-Droid Definitely, SSE4.1 instruction set based CPU, for building apps in 2025, No way!!
benrutter 1y ago
Hope I didn't come across as criticising FDroid here- It seems sucky to have build requirements change under your feet. It's just I think that FDroid is an important project, and hope this doesn't block their progress.
berkes 1y ago
> please keep in mind F-Droid is a volunteer-run community project. To, me, that's the worrying part. Not that it's ran by volunteers. But that all there's left between a full-on "tech monopoly" or hegemony, and a free internet, is small bands of underfunded volunteers. Opposition to market dominance and monopolies by multibillion multinationals shouldn't just come from a few volunteers. If that's the case, just roll over and give up; the cause is lost. (As I've done, hence my defaitism) Aside from that: it being "a volunteer ran community" shouldn't be put as an excuse for why it's in trouble/has poor UX/is hard to use/is behind/etc. It should be a killer feature. Something that makes it more resilient/better attuned/easier/earlier adopting/etc.
- camdroidw 1y ago
  Google has recently lost two cases against DoJ, keeping fingers crossed that Android will be divestituted.
  - shadowgovt 1y ago
    It's interesting to me how people panicked about the idea that 23AndMe's bankruptcy implies that some unknown, untrusted third-party will have their genetic information, but people are also crowing at the idea that a company that has purchase history on all your smartphone apps (and their permissions, and app data backup) could be compelled by the government to divest that function to some unknown, untrusted third-party.
- Dr4kn 1y ago
  The EU governments should gradually start switching to open source solutions. New software projects should be open source by default and only closed if there is a real reason for it. The EU is already home to many OS contributors and companies. I like the Red Hat approach where you are profitable, but with open source solutions. It's great for governments because you get support, but it's much easier to compete, which reduces prices. Smaller companies also give more of their money to open source. Bigger companies can always fork it and develop it internally and can therefore pressure devs to do work for less. Smaller companies have to rely on the projects to keep going and doing it all in house would be way too expensive for most.
  - FMecha 1y ago
    idk if you meant this, but I thought of F-Droid and other major open source projects being publicly funded by EU.
  - ethbr1 1y ago
    > I like the Red Hat approach where you are profitable, but with open source solutions. The Red Hat that was bought by IBM? I agree with your goals, but the devil is in the methods. If we want governments to support open source, the appropriate method is probably a legislative requirement for an open source license + a requirement to fund the developer.

charcircuit 1y ago

>FDroid is by far the largest non-google android store at the moment Samsung Galaxy Store is much much bigger.

benrutter 1y ago
Yup! I missed that one because I didn't realise it still existed. Woops!
ozim 1y ago
Largest not run by the corporations then ;)
ykonstant 1y ago
Funny true story: I got my first smartphone in 2018, a Samsung Galaxy A5. I have it to this day, and it is the only smartphone I ever used. This is the first time I hear about Samsung Galaxy store! (≧▽≦)

Jyaif 1y ago

> FDroid is by far the largest non-google android store at the moment Not even sure it's in the top 10

benrutter 1y ago
Wait really? What other ones are there!? Somebody's already pointed out Samsumg Galaxy store, but I don't think I know of others? Edit: searching online found this if anyone else is interested https://www.androidauthority.com/best-app-stores-936652/ https://www.androidauthority.com/best-app-stores-936652/
- magnio 1y ago
  There are at least six Android app stores in China that have more than 100 million MAUs each: Huawei AppGallery, Tencent MyApp, Xiaomi Mi Store (or GetApps), Oppo, Vivo, and Honor stores.
  - IceWreck 1y ago
    Huawei and Honor are seperate app stores? And Oppo and Vivo too? In both instances one company owns the other - why have competing app stores?
    - npn 1y ago
      Because some dumbass decided to ban Huawei before, forcing Chinese brands to split itself to multiple sub brandings that operate independently.
      - TiredOfLife 1y ago
        Huawei was banned because some dumbass at Huawei decided that sanction skirting was worth it
        ethbr1 1y ago

happosai 1y ago

Maybe if f-droid is important to you, donate, so they can buy newer build server?

ratdragon 1y ago
Did and doing regularly.
benrutter 1y ago
I'm not quite sure if I'm over reading into this, but this comes across as a snarky response as if I've said "boo, fdroid sucks and owes me a free app store!". Appologies if I came across like that, here's what I'm trying to convey: - Fdroid is important - This sounds like a problem, not necessarily one that's any fault of fdroid - Does anyone know of a plan to fix the issue? For what it's worth, I do donate on a monthly basis to fdroid through liberapay, but I don't think that's really relevant here?
- happosai 1y ago
  You are right, my message comes through as too snarky. What I wanted to give is an actionable item for the readers here.
nativeforks 1y ago
This has now become a major issue for F-Droid, as well as for FOSS app developers. People are starting to complain about devs because they haven't been able to release the new version for their apps (at least it doesn't show up on F-Droid) as promised
chasil 1y ago
Is Westmere the minimum architecture needed for the required SSE? Server hardware at the minimum v2 functionality can be found for a few hundred dollars. A competent administrator with physical access could solve this quickly. Take a ReaR image, then restore it on the new platform. Where are the physical servers?
- 1y ago

lucb1e 1y ago

> Are google looking into rolling back the requirement? (this last one sounds unlikely) That's apparently what they did last time. From the ticket: "Back in 2021 developers complained that AAPT2 from Gradle Plugin 4.1.0 was throwing errors while the older 4.0.2 worked fine. \n The issue was that 4.1.0 wanted a CPU which supports SSSE3 and on the older CPUs it would fail. \n This was fixed for Gradle Plugin 4.2.0-rc01 / Gradle 7.0.0 alpha 9"

1oooqooq 1y ago

why you read "google build tools cannot be built from source and it was compiled with an optional optimizations as required" and assume the right thing to do is to buy newer servers?

benrutter 1y ago
I'm not assuming anything, this is from a ticket for fdroid on google: > Our machines run older server grade CPUs, that indeed do not support the newer SSE4_1 and SSSE3.[0] I.e. the problem is because fdroid have older CPUs, newer ones would be able to build. I only mentioned it in terms of what the plans to fix might be. I have zero idea if upgrading servers is the best way to go. [0] https://issuetracker.google.com/issues/438515318?pli=1 https://issuetracker.google.com/issues/438515318?pli=1

Suppafly 1y ago

>This is pretty concerning, especially as FDroid is by far the largest non-google android store at the moment That's almost certainly not true.