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I literally don't have the words to look down my nose at this. Former X11 contributor, compositor contributor, active distro maintainer. I just can't. I laughed

I literally don't have the words to look down my nose at this. Former X11 contributor, compositor contributor, active distro maintainer. I just can't. I laughed. I scoffed. I incredulously looked at how much time someone with some braincells put into this. I don't care, I'm saying it. Fuck your fragmentation whining. USERS WANT THEIR SHIT TO WORK. They expect high refresh monitors to work. They expect to be able to use a fking external monitor alongside their hidpi laptop. They need to be able to use actual fractional scaling, again with varying dpi monitors. They want their shit to work reliably and not tear. Wayland delivers on this. Now. In a way X11 never EVER will. God Jesus fuck i cannot believe how much people's time has been wasted on this bullshit useless banal conversation.

cratermoon 1y ago
They expect screensavers to be able to lock the screen. https://web.archive.org/web/20250714073924/https://www.jwz.org/xscreensaver/man1.html#17 https://web.archive.org/web/20250714073924/https://www.jwz.o...
- nixosbestos 1y ago
  Yeah I'm so, just so upset XScreensaver can't lock a Wayland session. Jfc, good company there with a jwz link. There's so much wrong with wanting or thinking an XScreensaver app would somehow work with a random Wayland compositor. But it does require ignorance of the exact security changes made to the model when moving from X11 to Wayland. I can't. I can't. I should never waste my time in these threads. Edit: i do also find it amusing how much of that manpage is dedicated to calling out how fragile and broken X11 is. You can't make this stuff up. Edit2; I actually can't get over the irony of linking an app that notoriously has had a storied history because of X11's architecture. I can't name the number of time X11 sessions were not locked properly. Whatever. Going to keep happily enjoying the basic features that every other desktop OS user expects that I get with KDE, gnome, cosmic, away, Niri, and more, in Wayland. Good luck unclutching y'all's pearls.
  - cratermoon 1y ago
    Keep working on your Project Xanadu. I won't wait around for it be finished.
plorkyeran 1y ago
All this time has been wasted by Wayland developers insisting that if Wayland makes something impossible by design, then users who want that thing are simply incorrect to want it and therefore it doesn't count. Wayland does not deliver on basic shit working, and as long as "that's incompatible with Wayland's security model" is considered an acceptable answer, it never will.
- hollerith 1y ago
  Name one thing Wayland's architecture disallows that is allowed on Windows or MacOS.
  - yjftsjthsd-h 1y ago
    Sending emulated key presses to a specific window.
    - hollerith 1y ago
      Which OS allows that: MacOS or Windows or both? Doesn't sound safe.
      - yjftsjthsd-h 1y ago
        > Which OS allows that: MacOS or Windows or both? Here's a way to do in Windows: https://www.autohotkey.com/docs/v1/lib/ControlSend.htm https://www.autohotkey.com/docs/v1/lib/ControlSend.htm And here's how to do it in macOS: https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/36943/how-do-i-automate-a-key-press-in-applescript https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/36943/how-do-i-aut... > Doesn't sound safe. Yes, this is the usual excuse for why Wayland is intentionally useless. Fun fact: The only difference between a11y software and really awful malware is that the a11y programs work for me, the user. If you make features impossible in the name of "protecting" me, you break things for me.
yjftsjthsd-h 1y ago
> I don't care, I'm saying it. Fuck your fragmentation whining. USERS WANT THEIR SHIT TO WORK. ...You understand that this is the strongest pro-X11 argument, right? As a user, I don't care that the backend is messy, I care that my stuff works on Xorg and doesn't work on Wayland.

cratermoon 1y ago

They expect screensavers to be able to lock the screen. https://web.archive.org/web/20250714073924/https://www.jwz.org/xscreensaver/man1.html#17 https://web.archive.org/web/20250714073924/https://www.jwz.o...

nixosbestos 1y ago
Yeah I'm so, just so upset XScreensaver can't lock a Wayland session. Jfc, good company there with a jwz link. There's so much wrong with wanting or thinking an XScreensaver app would somehow work with a random Wayland compositor. But it does require ignorance of the exact security changes made to the model when moving from X11 to Wayland. I can't. I can't. I should never waste my time in these threads. Edit: i do also find it amusing how much of that manpage is dedicated to calling out how fragile and broken X11 is. You can't make this stuff up. Edit2; I actually can't get over the irony of linking an app that notoriously has had a storied history because of X11's architecture. I can't name the number of time X11 sessions were not locked properly. Whatever. Going to keep happily enjoying the basic features that every other desktop OS user expects that I get with KDE, gnome, cosmic, away, Niri, and more, in Wayland. Good luck unclutching y'all's pearls.
- cratermoon 1y ago
  Keep working on your Project Xanadu. I won't wait around for it be finished.

plorkyeran 1y ago

All this time has been wasted by Wayland developers insisting that if Wayland makes something impossible by design, then users who want that thing are simply incorrect to want it and therefore it doesn't count. Wayland does not deliver on basic shit working, and as long as "that's incompatible with Wayland's security model" is considered an acceptable answer, it never will.

hollerith 1y ago
Name one thing Wayland's architecture disallows that is allowed on Windows or MacOS.
- yjftsjthsd-h 1y ago
  Sending emulated key presses to a specific window.
  - hollerith 1y ago
    Which OS allows that: MacOS or Windows or both? Doesn't sound safe.
    - yjftsjthsd-h 1y ago
      > Which OS allows that: MacOS or Windows or both? Here's a way to do in Windows: https://www.autohotkey.com/docs/v1/lib/ControlSend.htm https://www.autohotkey.com/docs/v1/lib/ControlSend.htm And here's how to do it in macOS: https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/36943/how-do-i-automate-a-key-press-in-applescript https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/36943/how-do-i-aut... > Doesn't sound safe. Yes, this is the usual excuse for why Wayland is intentionally useless. Fun fact: The only difference between a11y software and really awful malware is that the a11y programs work for me, the user. If you make features impossible in the name of "protecting" me, you break things for me.

yjftsjthsd-h 1y ago

> I don't care, I'm saying it. Fuck your fragmentation whining. USERS WANT THEIR SHIT TO WORK. ...You understand that this is the strongest pro-X11 argument, right? As a user, I don't care that the backend is messy, I care that my stuff works on Xorg and doesn't work on Wayland.