5 ms·

I am very open to Wayland in theory but I legit worry because it's been in the air for years and years and it still feels so far away. And some of the Wayland-y

by rtpg 1y ago

I am very open to Wayland in theory but I legit worry because it's been in the air for years and years and it still feels so far away. And some of the Wayland-y points around things like security just never felt relevant to me. Though the real pain points for me have been around the various containerization things that just cause things like my IME to barely function. At least Python 3 if you started your project on Python 3 you mostly could just get where you wanted to be.

sleepy_keita 1y ago
The IME problem was the only thing keeping me on "legacy" X11 a couple years ago. Is it still the same today?
- rtpg 1y ago
  My IME issues were so dire I went back to a Mac (well also work giving me a Mac). But my IME issues linked to snaps and the like, not Wayland.
stingraycharles 1y ago
It’s mostly application support that’s lagging, right? And of course window managers like i3 needing complete replacement, but those seem to be mostly down already.
- rtpg 1y ago
  I guess? I mean like 2 years ago I couldn't even use Wayland on my machine with an Nvidia card (I didn't try that hard, though). Like this feels super bleeding edge and in that case I really don't get how this didn't _start_ in x11 land and then take over things from there. My only hope is that money from people who "need" linux graphics to work solves this.
- queenkjuul 1y ago
  Some stuff like global hotkeys and remote desktop are Wayland problems inherently
  - yjftsjthsd-h 1y ago
    I don't think inherently; Wayland could have included optional hotkey and screen sharing APIs a decade ago. It didn't, but it doesn't seem like a problem that must exist, just a failure to execute.
  - A907 1y ago
    Remote desktop isnt a problem just remote desktop as part of wayland itself, i run sunshine on wayland just fine
- puffybuf 1y ago
  i3 has pretty much been replaced by sway for me. Works great I have no problems with wayland as a regular user
eurleif 1y ago
X11 session support is being removed from the default install of Ubuntu with the upcoming 25.10 release. Gnome and KDE Plasma plan to remove X11 session support entirely within the next few years. Ready or not, Wayland is here.
- throw0101c 1y ago
  > X11 session support is being removed from the default install of Ubuntu with the upcoming 25.10 release. Currently I can SSH from my MacBook/XQuartz onto an Ubuntu/Linux system and run xterm (or whatever). How does that work in the future?
  - bmandale 1y ago
    apt install xorg
  - A907 1y ago
    You cant that has never been a feature that wayland had planned but there are other tools that can do aimilar like waypipe or rdp or something like sunshine or something like VNC but there is nothing as a part of wayland and doesnt need to be wayland isnt complete reimplementation of X
xtracto 1y ago
All engineers implementing Wayland should read Joel Spolsky's seminal article on software rewrite https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/04/06/things-you-should-never-do-part-i/ https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/04/06/things-you-should-... And Martin Fowler article on Strangle Fig pattern. It's been a waste of resources to have yet another biffurcation on the Linux Desktop ecosystem. It's pretty sad.
- A907 1y ago
  Joel spolsky article isnt that good and kinda has survivorship bias written over it. Focus is on few cases where rewrites werent successful without trully looking into why. Also it predicates on idea that Xorg and x11 would have stayed and wouldnt have been rewritten which btw was always the plan as it was riddled with temporary hacks, insecure and had lot of legacy code/legacy protocols, things that would require loads of rewrites so the talk always was X12 wouldnt be backwards compatible and a new from scratch version of X11 protocols(with xorg being written from scratch to supprot x12 protocols) but instead of doing that they went with wayland as it already existed
cratermoon 1y ago
> it's been in the air for years and years and it still feels so far away Wayland is the Project Xanadu of UI software.

by rtpg 1y ago

sleepy_keita 1y ago

The IME problem was the only thing keeping me on "legacy" X11 a couple years ago. Is it still the same today?

rtpg 1y ago
My IME issues were so dire I went back to a Mac (well also work giving me a Mac). But my IME issues linked to snaps and the like, not Wayland.

stingraycharles 1y ago

It’s mostly application support that’s lagging, right? And of course window managers like i3 needing complete replacement, but those seem to be mostly down already.

rtpg 1y ago
I guess? I mean like 2 years ago I couldn't even use Wayland on my machine with an Nvidia card (I didn't try that hard, though). Like this feels super bleeding edge and in that case I really don't get how this didn't _start_ in x11 land and then take over things from there. My only hope is that money from people who "need" linux graphics to work solves this.
queenkjuul 1y ago
Some stuff like global hotkeys and remote desktop are Wayland problems inherently
- yjftsjthsd-h 1y ago
  I don't think inherently; Wayland could have included optional hotkey and screen sharing APIs a decade ago. It didn't, but it doesn't seem like a problem that must exist, just a failure to execute.
- A907 1y ago
  Remote desktop isnt a problem just remote desktop as part of wayland itself, i run sunshine on wayland just fine
puffybuf 1y ago
i3 has pretty much been replaced by sway for me. Works great I have no problems with wayland as a regular user

eurleif 1y ago

X11 session support is being removed from the default install of Ubuntu with the upcoming 25.10 release. Gnome and KDE Plasma plan to remove X11 session support entirely within the next few years. Ready or not, Wayland is here.

throw0101c 1y ago
> X11 session support is being removed from the default install of Ubuntu with the upcoming 25.10 release. Currently I can SSH from my MacBook/XQuartz onto an Ubuntu/Linux system and run xterm (or whatever). How does that work in the future?
- bmandale 1y ago
  apt install xorg
- A907 1y ago
  You cant that has never been a feature that wayland had planned but there are other tools that can do aimilar like waypipe or rdp or something like sunshine or something like VNC but there is nothing as a part of wayland and doesnt need to be wayland isnt complete reimplementation of X

xtracto 1y ago

All engineers implementing Wayland should read Joel Spolsky's seminal article on software rewrite https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/04/06/things-you-should-never-do-part-i/ https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/04/06/things-you-should-... And Martin Fowler article on Strangle Fig pattern. It's been a waste of resources to have yet another biffurcation on the Linux Desktop ecosystem. It's pretty sad.

A907 1y ago
Joel spolsky article isnt that good and kinda has survivorship bias written over it. Focus is on few cases where rewrites werent successful without trully looking into why. Also it predicates on idea that Xorg and x11 would have stayed and wouldnt have been rewritten which btw was always the plan as it was riddled with temporary hacks, insecure and had lot of legacy code/legacy protocols, things that would require loads of rewrites so the talk always was X12 wouldnt be backwards compatible and a new from scratch version of X11 protocols(with xorg being written from scratch to supprot x12 protocols) but instead of doing that they went with wayland as it already existed

cratermoon 1y ago

> it's been in the air for years and years and it still feels so far away Wayland is the Project Xanadu of UI software.