8 ms·

Recto – A Truly 2D Language

147 points by mhagiwara 1y ago

curtisszmania 1y ago
[dead]
S4M 1y ago
There is also thje 2D dialect of Racket: https://docs.racket-lang.org/2d/ https://docs.racket-lang.org/2d/
- ivape 1y ago
  That first table example is so intuitive.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
OgsyedIE 1y ago
Does Recto support something like this: https://i.redd.it/tfd086olfoif1.jpeg https://i.redd.it/tfd086olfoif1.jpeg
- pontifier 1y ago
  I started thinking about Ven diagrams too and how that might be a useful flow control mechanism. It feels like there is a disconnect somewhere, and im not sure what it is.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
keyle 1y ago
There is a whole category of multiple dimension languages on esolang [1]... Nothing you'd really want to use other than to impress someone. No languages captures time as a dimension, yet. [1] https://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang:Categorization#Dimensions https://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang:Categorization#Dimensions
- marvinborner 1y ago
  I think emiT [1] comes quite close! A time paradox from [2]: create x = 10; time point; print x; //prints 10 in first timeline, and 20 in the next create traveler = 20; traveler warps point{ x = traveler; traveler kills traveler; }; [1] https://esolangs.org/wiki/EmiT https://esolangs.org/wiki/EmiT, https://github.com/nimrag-b/emiT-C https://github.com/nimrag-b/emiT-C [2] https://www.reddit.com/r/ProgrammingLanguages/comments/1golfwz/emit_a_time_travelling_programming_language/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ProgrammingLanguages/comments/1golf...
- soulofmischief 1y ago
  It's worth mentioning Orca[0] by Hundredrabbits, a 2-dimensional esolang which does incorporate time (and thus distance) and so is really 3-dimensional. It's also worth checking out Extempore[1] by Andrew Sorensen and Ben Swift, which grants you have incredibly precise timing semantics at the sample level. "Each extempore process has a scheduling engine built-in, allowing tasks to be scheduled for execution at a precise time in the future. Unlike threading constructs such as sleep() or wait(), which don’t provide strong guarantees about temporal accuracy (i.e. the time they’ll sleep/wait for), Extempore's scheduling engine is guaranteed to execute its tasks at the requested time (the number of audio samples since Extempore was started). This temporal guarantee is significant for time critical domains such as audio and graphic, and real-time systems programming." What's cool about this is that you're able to modify the program while it's running, and only update sections of it at a time, using the editor as a scratchpad, and it supports networking so you can precisely synchronize a herd of non-local devices and do things you'd have an extremely hard time doing in other languages. The applications extend far beyond just audio and visual programming. What both of these languages have in common is that they are designed for live coding, or as Sorensen says, cyberphysical programming. I am very interested in the marriage of these technologies and recent transformer models. [0] https://100r.co/site/orca.html https://100r.co/site/orca.html [1] https://extemporelang.github.io/docs/overview/time/ https://extemporelang.github.io/docs/overview/time/
- omoikane 1y ago
  > No languages captures time as a dimension, yet. Maybe not exactly, but there was one task[1] in ICFPc 2024[2] where you create programs that are laid out in 2D, and there is a special operator that causes the control flow to travel back in time. It was super fun. [1] https://github.com/icfpcontest2024/icfpc2024/blob/main/static/3d/3d.md https://github.com/icfpcontest2024/icfpc2024/blob/main/stati... [2] https://icfpcontest2024.github.io/ https://icfpcontest2024.github.io/
rickcarlino 1y ago
Has this paradigm been explored as a basis for visual programming languages? It seems like it could do a better job of handling the “density” of a program, which is often a problem in VPLs.
hamstor 1y ago
Why the tight limit of only 2 dimensions? Seems unnecessary. A more general approach would be to support an arbitrary amount of dimensions
- mlajtos 1y ago
  Yes, we should store text in string tensors.
- Mithriil 1y ago
  Three cheers for the language that naturally requires a VR headset to visualize 5D tensor logic.
IsTom 1y ago
Isn't this just braces/parens with extra steps?
- fnordlord 1y ago
  I started to think the same thing when it got down to the for-loop example. Is Python 2-d because it uses indentation for blocks?
- kkkqkqkqkqlqlql 1y ago
  Everything is just braces/parens with extra steps.
  - recursive 1y ago
    Not befunge
flyinghamster 1y ago
I'm guessing the author doesn't speak Spanish. :)
- nymiro 1y ago
  My thoughts exactly lol
- mlajtos 1y ago
  I thought the name was intentional. :)
- anthk 1y ago
  The other geometrical meaning :)
- f1shy 1y ago
  Seems from japan. I often see names from japan to be Spanish words that often are not the best. e.g. verso (can be a poetry verse, but also in some countries a cheap lie), pajero (a car that can drive over hay, but in some countries wanker)
- gus_massa 1y ago
  At least here in Argentina you can say "recto" with a straigh face everywhere. And it means straigh or perpendicular. The other meaning of "recto" is used only in medical literature or in mean jokes where you pretend to talk seriously. I worked with teachers of other countries of Latam, sometimes in geometry problems for children. For example, it's usual "ángulo recto". I don't have it in my list of taboo or problematic words. For example a kite-like cuadrilateral has a different names in each country, none in offensive, but you must be very cautios to ensure everyone understand the same meaning. Also, ur kids dont understand am/pm that is usual in other countries. To avoid problems everything must be between 1:01 and 11:59.
jeffreyyao 1y ago
I really enjoyed this read! Sending you support, strength and comfort to you for the days ahead
abraxas 1y ago
I consider Unreal Blueprints to be essentially a 2D language with the data flow and the execution flow modelled in separate dimensions.
- dkersten 1y ago
  Max/MSP actually kinda encodes this into the language too: when all else is equal (eg if you connect the same data output to the input of two print nodes), nodes on the left happen before nodes on the right (normal input/output connections go from top to bottom in Max, unlike Blueprints and most others where its left to right).
xigoi 1y ago
Having only the corners marked out with weird markers makes it hard to visualize the rectangles. It would be nicer to have the entire rectangle laid out of Unicode box drawing characters.
joshmarinacci 1y ago
I love this concept but I feel it is hamstrung by the need to write it using a text editor. If the rectangles were defined by actual graphical shapes it would be a lot easier to read and understand. Also I wonder if positional parameters would need to be replaced by named arguments.
mockingloris 1y ago
Truly interesting read! @mhagiwara The article reads very well. With the bandwidth left from parsing all that new information, all I can say is this is something. I know there's still a whole lot of figuring out to do. (I imagine if there were peeps from other-than-earth, they'd probably communicate in a manner as this - depicted in the "Arrival" movie) Thanks for sharing. I'll be donating a star on github and keeping watch-O
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
enricozb 1y ago
Hexagony is another 2d language: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Hexagony https://esolangs.org/wiki/Hexagony
- WorldMaker 1y ago
  The 2D category on that wiki has a lot of fun examples: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Category:Two-dimensional_languages https://esolangs.org/wiki/Category:Two-dimensional_languages There are also experiments into going higher than that: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Category:Multi-dimensional_languages https://esolangs.org/wiki/Category:Multi-dimensional_languag...
anthk 1y ago
"Straight" in Spanish. Perfect name for 2D and vectors.
- f1shy 1y ago
  Also ass (rectum) in spanish.
psychoslave 1y ago
>Virtually all the languages we humans use—spoken, written, or artificial (such as programming languages)—are fundamentally one-dimensional. Anyone having a look at a musical score can conclude this is wrong. Even when it comes to spoken language, intonation is conveying a lot, even in languages which are not classified as tonal. All that said, that's nice to see an exploration of exotic expression form. It doesn't need to down other approach to make shine its own.
- almostgotcaught 1y ago
  > musical score sheet music isn't a language, it's a notation. it's just a concise way to represent a waveform (a song). and it's certainly one dimensional because you either play the song forwards or backwards.
  - ghssds 1y ago
    >sheet music isn't a language of course not a language in the same way English or Spanish are languages, but certainly a language in the same way mathematical formula, Lisp, or Java are languages. >certainly one dimensional The X axis represent time and the Y axis represent pitch. Moreover, you can have multiple pitches at the same time. I'm not a musician nor a geometrician but it does seems 2D to me, in a way regular text is not.
    - almostgotcaught 1y ago
      > of course not a language in the same way English or Spanish are languages, but certainly a language in the same way mathematical formula, Lisp, or Java are languages. It is mostly certainly not - the defining feature of all languages (human, formal, mathematical, programming) is that you can define new words/concepts/primitives. Sheet music is notation.
      - Sharlin 1y ago
        Then regex, HTML, YAML, and so on are not languages either according to your definition. Yet they are languages according to formal language theory, a definition which I’d say is a bit more widespread than yours. Indeed what you propose roughly maps to (a subset of) context-sensitive languages in particular. Defining new primitived isn’t really essential. What matters is what you can express with the existing primitives and grammar rules. And sheet music has been quite successful at expressing incredibly complex musical concepts just fine. (Also there’s the fact that sheet music can contain arbitrarily complex instructions to the performer in natural language, and define new notations too. But composers usually refrain from doing that for the same reason that people don’t go around inventing new idiosynchratic words in English unless they’re SF authors.)
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
chaostheory 1y ago
I think this is only makes sense if you have new hardware visuals like either VR or AR. It doesn’t make sense on a pancake screen
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
jacksonslipock 1y ago
The author and his family are in the middle of a harrowing battle with cancer. Here are links to his go fund me and caringbridge: https://gofund.me/19bb7ee3 https://gofund.me/19bb7ee3 https://www.caringbridge.org/site/b0895f78-5320-39d6-96ad-8be3f96e3789 https://www.caringbridge.org/site/b0895f78-5320-39d6-96ad-8b...
apgwoz 1y ago
In the very early 2000s, a coworker of mine, who was frequently banned from the Something Awful forums, shared with me a language, which I think was called “Path”, that was 2D. IIRC, execution of code followed a textual path through the file. I seem to remember it being sort of like a 2D brainfuck. You essentially drew a map to compute. When I look at Orca (https://100r.co/site/orca.html https://100r.co/site/orca.html) I’m reminded of it, but it was definitely unique. Anyone happen to remember / have a link to a successor?
- archargelod 1y ago
  A very simple query "PATH programming language" with SearXNG returns [1]. I think it matches your description perfectly. > 2003 > PATH is a programming language that is similar to Brainfuck. This intuitive language requires a simple grasp of two dimensional space, one requirement that almost no other programming languages have. [1] https://sourceforge.net/projects/path/ https://sourceforge.net/projects/path/ [2] https://pathlang.sourceforge.net/ https://pathlang.sourceforge.net/
  - apgwoz 1y ago
    Yes! This is it, thank you!
quuxplusone 1y ago
Upvoted for the likelihood of producing interesting conversations on HN. But fundamentally this Recto language looks 1D, not 2D. As IsTom said below, it looks like "braces/parens with extra steps." If there were any actual "in-game effect" of the rectangles — e.g. a "rotate rectangle" primitive that would change the order in which atoms were evaluated; or some meaning given to overlapping rectangles as in OgsyedIE's comment — then it would be much more interesting, because it would no longer be exactly isomorphic to Lisp/Scheme.
explodes 1y ago
Amazing. I love how heptopods have a role in this. Best of luck to you and your family.
manugo4 1y ago
Not the best name, as a spaniard
bawana 1y ago
Why stop here? Cant we endow macdraw with an LLM? With that kind of graphic- text language, you can draw structures (like you might on a napkin) with arrows resembling trees or flow diagrams that do computation. In this kind of macDraw-LLM language, we can use graphic primitives. As you zoom in, the primitive can reveal lines of code. Zoom out and you have a high level view of code blocks. Now those silly diagrams of transformer models actually become the code.
Timwi 1y ago
Aw man, no mention of Funciton :) [0] I believe I understand where the designer is coming from. Traditional languages use a 1D syntax to express a structure that is really not 1D (the parse tree). However, I don't think it's really 2D either. If you think about how an interpreter would have to proceed to execute Recto code, it would still parse it into an internal representation and then execute that, and this internal representation no longer uses the 2D layout of the code. I'm not implying that it's a bad idea or anything. To the contrary, I think Recto is a cool idea. I'm just skeptical that simply making a language syntax two-dimensional automatically makes it easier to understand, code in, collaborate in, or implement a parser/interpreter/compiler for. [0] https://esolangs.org/wiki/Funciton https://esolangs.org/wiki/Funciton
- Mars008 1y ago
  > how an interpreter would have to proceed to execute Recto code, it would still parse it into an internal representation and then execute that, and this internal representation no longer uses the 2D layout of the code. Adding parallel execution will make it true 2D at execution time. Even though it's sequential code. More over it can be logically, architecturally 2D while being 1D from interpreter's standpoint. If it uses cooperative multitasking with 1 running task at a time. Or simply 1 core processor.
  - Timwi 1y ago
    That has nothing to do with the 2D syntax though. That's just a separate language feature. A feature that 1D languages can (and already do) provide just fine.
jezzamon 1y ago
Another challenge of a language like this is git merges won't work. That was one painful part of working with Unreal's blueprints

147 points by mhagiwara 1y ago

curtisszmania 1y ago

[dead]

S4M 1y ago

There is also thje 2D dialect of Racket: https://docs.racket-lang.org/2d/ https://docs.racket-lang.org/2d/

ivape 1y ago
That first table example is so intuitive.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

OgsyedIE 1y ago

Does Recto support something like this: https://i.redd.it/tfd086olfoif1.jpeg https://i.redd.it/tfd086olfoif1.jpeg

pontifier 1y ago
I started thinking about Ven diagrams too and how that might be a useful flow control mechanism. It feels like there is a disconnect somewhere, and im not sure what it is.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

keyle 1y ago

There is a whole category of multiple dimension languages on esolang [1]... Nothing you'd really want to use other than to impress someone. No languages captures time as a dimension, yet. [1] https://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang:Categorization#Dimensions https://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang:Categorization#Dimensions

marvinborner 1y ago
I think emiT [1] comes quite close! A time paradox from [2]: create x = 10; time point; print x; //prints 10 in first timeline, and 20 in the next create traveler = 20; traveler warps point{ x = traveler; traveler kills traveler; }; [1] https://esolangs.org/wiki/EmiT https://esolangs.org/wiki/EmiT, https://github.com/nimrag-b/emiT-C https://github.com/nimrag-b/emiT-C [2] https://www.reddit.com/r/ProgrammingLanguages/comments/1golfwz/emit_a_time_travelling_programming_language/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ProgrammingLanguages/comments/1golf...
soulofmischief 1y ago
It's worth mentioning Orca[0] by Hundredrabbits, a 2-dimensional esolang which does incorporate time (and thus distance) and so is really 3-dimensional. It's also worth checking out Extempore[1] by Andrew Sorensen and Ben Swift, which grants you have incredibly precise timing semantics at the sample level. "Each extempore process has a scheduling engine built-in, allowing tasks to be scheduled for execution at a precise time in the future. Unlike threading constructs such as sleep() or wait(), which don’t provide strong guarantees about temporal accuracy (i.e. the time they’ll sleep/wait for), Extempore's scheduling engine is guaranteed to execute its tasks at the requested time (the number of audio samples since Extempore was started). This temporal guarantee is significant for time critical domains such as audio and graphic, and real-time systems programming." What's cool about this is that you're able to modify the program while it's running, and only update sections of it at a time, using the editor as a scratchpad, and it supports networking so you can precisely synchronize a herd of non-local devices and do things you'd have an extremely hard time doing in other languages. The applications extend far beyond just audio and visual programming. What both of these languages have in common is that they are designed for live coding, or as Sorensen says, cyberphysical programming. I am very interested in the marriage of these technologies and recent transformer models. [0] https://100r.co/site/orca.html https://100r.co/site/orca.html [1] https://extemporelang.github.io/docs/overview/time/ https://extemporelang.github.io/docs/overview/time/
omoikane 1y ago
> No languages captures time as a dimension, yet. Maybe not exactly, but there was one task[1] in ICFPc 2024[2] where you create programs that are laid out in 2D, and there is a special operator that causes the control flow to travel back in time. It was super fun. [1] https://github.com/icfpcontest2024/icfpc2024/blob/main/static/3d/3d.md https://github.com/icfpcontest2024/icfpc2024/blob/main/stati... [2] https://icfpcontest2024.github.io/ https://icfpcontest2024.github.io/

rickcarlino 1y ago

Has this paradigm been explored as a basis for visual programming languages? It seems like it could do a better job of handling the “density” of a program, which is often a problem in VPLs.

hamstor 1y ago

Why the tight limit of only 2 dimensions? Seems unnecessary. A more general approach would be to support an arbitrary amount of dimensions

mlajtos 1y ago
Yes, we should store text in string tensors.
Mithriil 1y ago
Three cheers for the language that naturally requires a VR headset to visualize 5D tensor logic.

IsTom 1y ago

Isn't this just braces/parens with extra steps?

fnordlord 1y ago
I started to think the same thing when it got down to the for-loop example. Is Python 2-d because it uses indentation for blocks?
kkkqkqkqkqlqlql 1y ago
Everything is just braces/parens with extra steps.
- recursive 1y ago
  Not befunge

flyinghamster 1y ago

I'm guessing the author doesn't speak Spanish. :)

nymiro 1y ago
My thoughts exactly lol
mlajtos 1y ago
I thought the name was intentional. :)
anthk 1y ago
The other geometrical meaning :)
f1shy 1y ago
Seems from japan. I often see names from japan to be Spanish words that often are not the best. e.g. verso (can be a poetry verse, but also in some countries a cheap lie), pajero (a car that can drive over hay, but in some countries wanker)
gus_massa 1y ago
At least here in Argentina you can say "recto" with a straigh face everywhere. And it means straigh or perpendicular. The other meaning of "recto" is used only in medical literature or in mean jokes where you pretend to talk seriously. I worked with teachers of other countries of Latam, sometimes in geometry problems for children. For example, it's usual "ángulo recto". I don't have it in my list of taboo or problematic words. For example a kite-like cuadrilateral has a different names in each country, none in offensive, but you must be very cautios to ensure everyone understand the same meaning. Also, ur kids dont understand am/pm that is usual in other countries. To avoid problems everything must be between 1:01 and 11:59.

jeffreyyao 1y ago

I really enjoyed this read! Sending you support, strength and comfort to you for the days ahead

abraxas 1y ago

I consider Unreal Blueprints to be essentially a 2D language with the data flow and the execution flow modelled in separate dimensions.

dkersten 1y ago
Max/MSP actually kinda encodes this into the language too: when all else is equal (eg if you connect the same data output to the input of two print nodes), nodes on the left happen before nodes on the right (normal input/output connections go from top to bottom in Max, unlike Blueprints and most others where its left to right).

xigoi 1y ago

Having only the corners marked out with weird markers makes it hard to visualize the rectangles. It would be nicer to have the entire rectangle laid out of Unicode box drawing characters.

joshmarinacci 1y ago

I love this concept but I feel it is hamstrung by the need to write it using a text editor. If the rectangles were defined by actual graphical shapes it would be a lot easier to read and understand. Also I wonder if positional parameters would need to be replaced by named arguments.

mockingloris 1y ago

Truly interesting read! @mhagiwara The article reads very well. With the bandwidth left from parsing all that new information, all I can say is this is something. I know there's still a whole lot of figuring out to do. (I imagine if there were peeps from other-than-earth, they'd probably communicate in a manner as this - depicted in the "Arrival" movie) Thanks for sharing. I'll be donating a star on github and keeping watch-O

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

enricozb 1y ago

Hexagony is another 2d language: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Hexagony https://esolangs.org/wiki/Hexagony

WorldMaker 1y ago
The 2D category on that wiki has a lot of fun examples: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Category:Two-dimensional_languages https://esolangs.org/wiki/Category:Two-dimensional_languages There are also experiments into going higher than that: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Category:Multi-dimensional_languages https://esolangs.org/wiki/Category:Multi-dimensional_languag...

anthk 1y ago

"Straight" in Spanish. Perfect name for 2D and vectors.

f1shy 1y ago
Also ass (rectum) in spanish.

psychoslave 1y ago

>Virtually all the languages we humans use—spoken, written, or artificial (such as programming languages)—are fundamentally one-dimensional. Anyone having a look at a musical score can conclude this is wrong. Even when it comes to spoken language, intonation is conveying a lot, even in languages which are not classified as tonal. All that said, that's nice to see an exploration of exotic expression form. It doesn't need to down other approach to make shine its own.

almostgotcaught 1y ago
> musical score sheet music isn't a language, it's a notation. it's just a concise way to represent a waveform (a song). and it's certainly one dimensional because you either play the song forwards or backwards.
- ghssds 1y ago
  >sheet music isn't a language of course not a language in the same way English or Spanish are languages, but certainly a language in the same way mathematical formula, Lisp, or Java are languages. >certainly one dimensional The X axis represent time and the Y axis represent pitch. Moreover, you can have multiple pitches at the same time. I'm not a musician nor a geometrician but it does seems 2D to me, in a way regular text is not.
  - almostgotcaught 1y ago
    > of course not a language in the same way English or Spanish are languages, but certainly a language in the same way mathematical formula, Lisp, or Java are languages. It is mostly certainly not - the defining feature of all languages (human, formal, mathematical, programming) is that you can define new words/concepts/primitives. Sheet music is notation.
    - Sharlin 1y ago
      Then regex, HTML, YAML, and so on are not languages either according to your definition. Yet they are languages according to formal language theory, a definition which I’d say is a bit more widespread than yours. Indeed what you propose roughly maps to (a subset of) context-sensitive languages in particular. Defining new primitived isn’t really essential. What matters is what you can express with the existing primitives and grammar rules. And sheet music has been quite successful at expressing incredibly complex musical concepts just fine. (Also there’s the fact that sheet music can contain arbitrarily complex instructions to the performer in natural language, and define new notations too. But composers usually refrain from doing that for the same reason that people don’t go around inventing new idiosynchratic words in English unless they’re SF authors.)

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

chaostheory 1y ago

I think this is only makes sense if you have new hardware visuals like either VR or AR. It doesn’t make sense on a pancake screen

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

jacksonslipock 1y ago

The author and his family are in the middle of a harrowing battle with cancer. Here are links to his go fund me and caringbridge: https://gofund.me/19bb7ee3 https://gofund.me/19bb7ee3 https://www.caringbridge.org/site/b0895f78-5320-39d6-96ad-8be3f96e3789 https://www.caringbridge.org/site/b0895f78-5320-39d6-96ad-8b...

apgwoz 1y ago

In the very early 2000s, a coworker of mine, who was frequently banned from the Something Awful forums, shared with me a language, which I think was called “Path”, that was 2D. IIRC, execution of code followed a textual path through the file. I seem to remember it being sort of like a 2D brainfuck. You essentially drew a map to compute. When I look at Orca (https://100r.co/site/orca.html https://100r.co/site/orca.html) I’m reminded of it, but it was definitely unique. Anyone happen to remember / have a link to a successor?

archargelod 1y ago
A very simple query "PATH programming language" with SearXNG returns [1]. I think it matches your description perfectly. > 2003 > PATH is a programming language that is similar to Brainfuck. This intuitive language requires a simple grasp of two dimensional space, one requirement that almost no other programming languages have. [1] https://sourceforge.net/projects/path/ https://sourceforge.net/projects/path/ [2] https://pathlang.sourceforge.net/ https://pathlang.sourceforge.net/
- apgwoz 1y ago
  Yes! This is it, thank you!

quuxplusone 1y ago

Upvoted for the likelihood of producing interesting conversations on HN. But fundamentally this Recto language looks 1D, not 2D. As IsTom said below, it looks like "braces/parens with extra steps." If there were any actual "in-game effect" of the rectangles — e.g. a "rotate rectangle" primitive that would change the order in which atoms were evaluated; or some meaning given to overlapping rectangles as in OgsyedIE's comment — then it would be much more interesting, because it would no longer be exactly isomorphic to Lisp/Scheme.

explodes 1y ago

Amazing. I love how heptopods have a role in this. Best of luck to you and your family.

manugo4 1y ago

Not the best name, as a spaniard

bawana 1y ago

Why stop here? Cant we endow macdraw with an LLM? With that kind of graphic- text language, you can draw structures (like you might on a napkin) with arrows resembling trees or flow diagrams that do computation. In this kind of macDraw-LLM language, we can use graphic primitives. As you zoom in, the primitive can reveal lines of code. Zoom out and you have a high level view of code blocks. Now those silly diagrams of transformer models actually become the code.

Timwi 1y ago

Aw man, no mention of Funciton :) [0] I believe I understand where the designer is coming from. Traditional languages use a 1D syntax to express a structure that is really not 1D (the parse tree). However, I don't think it's really 2D either. If you think about how an interpreter would have to proceed to execute Recto code, it would still parse it into an internal representation and then execute that, and this internal representation no longer uses the 2D layout of the code. I'm not implying that it's a bad idea or anything. To the contrary, I think Recto is a cool idea. I'm just skeptical that simply making a language syntax two-dimensional automatically makes it easier to understand, code in, collaborate in, or implement a parser/interpreter/compiler for. [0] https://esolangs.org/wiki/Funciton https://esolangs.org/wiki/Funciton

Mars008 1y ago
> how an interpreter would have to proceed to execute Recto code, it would still parse it into an internal representation and then execute that, and this internal representation no longer uses the 2D layout of the code. Adding parallel execution will make it true 2D at execution time. Even though it's sequential code. More over it can be logically, architecturally 2D while being 1D from interpreter's standpoint. If it uses cooperative multitasking with 1 running task at a time. Or simply 1 core processor.
- Timwi 1y ago
  That has nothing to do with the 2D syntax though. That's just a separate language feature. A feature that 1D languages can (and already do) provide just fine.

jezzamon 1y ago

Another challenge of a language like this is git merges won't work. That was one painful part of working with Unreal's blueprints