5 ms·

And at least 222 people believed it to be true (or else those are some illogical upvotes).

by perihelions 1y ago

mlok 1y ago
An upvote does not mean the user believes the story is true.
- perihelions 1y ago
  Then they are illogically boosting a hoax on purpose, or at least with reckless disregard for truth.
  - vpribish 1y ago
    Or not engaging enough to come to any conclusion - just chuckle - upvote. Useful, but not idiots nor villains
  - zahlman 1y ago
    Just because you don't consciously believe something to be true, doesn't mean you don't care about its veracity. The null hypothesis is that people are willing to treat things as true based on their priors — which could be informed by things as simple as "this was posted on a website not known as a den of misinformation, and shared on HN" — while not actually devoting thought to an investigation of the truth.
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
    - nailer 1y ago
      > "this was posted on a website not known as a den of misinformation, and shared on HN" I don't know whether you mean Threads or Bluesky but it sounds like you haven't used either.
      - natch 1y ago
        Yeah I have peeked into both and have never seen such a strident collection of vituperation, misinformation, and hatred. For people who claim to have left Twitter due to supposed toxicity, they definitely seem unacquainted with mirrors.
  - username332211 1y ago
    Or they want knowledge of the hoax to spread, so as to protect the victim against further lies?
  - pengaru 1y ago
    If your goal is to burn down tesla/musk, you logically promote everything remotely damaging. And there are plenty rational reasons to have that goal.
    - dkiebd 1y ago
      It’s funny that I just read the thread on rationalism and then come back to this one and someone posted this flawed nonsense.
- zahlman 1y ago
  Many of the people who suspected the story to be a fake were... not very well received in that thread, at least at first.
  - nailer 1y ago
    Since HN is manually unflagging political posts, and not enforcing the 'uses HN for political advocacy' guideline the site is generally more combatative and there's a lot more hoaxes and conspiracy theories on the front page.
    - gonzobonzo 1y ago
      I've noticed this as well. It feels more and more like Reddit everyday.
      - modeless 1y ago
        The problem with having a site-wide rule against complaining that the site is becoming Reddit is that when it actually becomes true you're prohibited from telling the truth.
        robocat 1y ago
        There is no site-wide prohibition - which is obvious since these comments would be prohibited. There are guidelines and each guideline is mostly loosely encouraged by the community here by downvoting - in effect becoming community standards. However a well written exception can receive upvotes (even though strictly against guidelines) because it is a community and individual judgement mostly gets priority. Flagging is different because it is a much stronger signal of violation of norms, however it is still mostly a signal from the HN user community. The moderation balance on HN appears to be quite functional to me (although I'm happy with many guidelines that others fight against). Just my opinion on the topic.
- ameliaquining 1y ago
  I read the thread when it had something like 50 comments, and most of them were treating it as either confirmed or at least potentially true, and using it as an opportunity to rail against corporate abuse in full generality, just like every HN thread about a negative story about a tech company. It was only later that the skeptical comments started to rise to the top.
  - motorest 1y ago
    > I read the thread when it had something like 50 comments, and most of them were treating it as either confirmed or at least potentially true (...) I think you're trying to fabricate an alternative version of reality while being aware that the facts (i.e., the actual posts in the thread) are not on your side.
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
    - potato3732842 1y ago
      The best part is that if the alleged reality is true it's an even bigger condemnation of the community. "no, they didn't believe it, they were engaging in strategic trolling and vote gaming" as if that doesn't imply a way more malicious frame of mind than some hapless idiot looking at the message and going "yup, seems legit, upvote we go". (disclaimer: I wasn't in those comments, IDK who's reality is true here)
      - aydyn 1y ago
        >(disclaimer: I wasn't in those comments, IDK who's reality is true here) As someone who did see that thread evolve, let me help you out. HN (being largely comprised of redditors) were more than happy to amplify pure misinformation because it was politically expedient. The evidence that it was fake was given fairly early on; a lot of people ignored it. It's certainly a condemnation of the userbase on this forum.
    - ameliaquining 1y ago
- thebruce87m 1y ago
  Exactly - they might have something to gain by convincing others it is true for example.
  - kimbernator 1y ago
    There are non-nefarious reasons, too. If someone is unsure whether something is real they could upvote it to increase visibility and discussion.
- deepsun 1y ago
  According to HN guidelines, upvotes means something that sparks curiosity.
pilingual 1y ago
[dead]
- armchairhacker 1y ago
  https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/aaaah https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/aaaah
  - jameslk 1y ago
    Thank you for this comic. It addresses a feeling I experience a lot on the internet
- bboygravity 1y ago
  If Tesla weren't constantly attacked as a supposed shady company by NYT and the rest of the psyop propaganda machine it wouldn't have gotten so many upvotes.
  - gamblor956 1y ago
    If Tesla's owner didn't have a history of lying, and the company didn't have a history of attempting to evade legal disclosure obligations, people wouldn't think of it as a shady company.
  - ipython 1y ago
    Totally not the actions of a shady company with cowboy culture built in from the top: https://www.reuters.com/technology/tesla-workers-shared-sensitive-images-recorded-by-customer-cars-2023-04-06/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/tesla-workers-shared-sens...
general1726 1y ago
[flagged]
- natch 1y ago
  More like it's on brand with the fantastic delusions people have about Musk. In reality Tesla and Musk are very good about privacy and leaving control with the user. But, you do you.
  - gamblor956 1y ago
    Reminded of all those times that Musk had Tesla release crash details on X pinning the blame on the driver when it was in Tesla's interest to shift the blame for crashes. Yep, great commitment to privacy there. You know what automakers don't do that? Literally every other automaker. When they release those kinds of details, they do so in response to a court proceeding as part of the legal discovery process so that privacy concerns, etc. can be dealt with before the information is released.
    - protimewaster 1y ago
      Plus, they supposedly had it turn off the automatic features just before it detected an imminent crash, ensuring that they could always correctly tell everyone that "Auto Pilot was off at the time of the crash". Of course, that doesn't mean that it wasn't used in the 20 seconds prior. So, those details weren't actually insightful. They were just PR bullshit.
  - general1726 1y ago
    Like spying people on internal cameras and then sharing it? https://www.reuters.com/technology/tesla-workers-shared-sensitive-images-recorded-by-customer-cars-2023-04-06/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/tesla-workers-shared-sens...
  - scottbez1 1y ago
    This statement "Tesla and Musk are very good about privacy and leaving control with the user" is pretty clearly false [1]: > between 2019 and 2022, groups of Tesla employees privately shared via an internal messaging system sometimes highly invasive videos and images recorded by customers’ car cameras, according to interviews by Reuters with nine former employees. [1] https://www.reuters.com/technology/tesla-workers-shared-sensitive-images-recorded-by-customer-cars-2023-04-06/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/tesla-workers-shared-sens...
ufmace 1y ago
Well I see it's flagged for now, and I was one of the flaggers. IMO, at least by the time I saw it, there were more than enough red flags raised to say that having it on HN before more evidence is available is only flamebait.

And at least 222 people believed it to be true (or else those are some illogical upvotes).

mlok 1y ago

An upvote does not mean the user believes the story is true.

perihelions 1y ago
Then they are illogically boosting a hoax on purpose, or at least with reckless disregard for truth.
- vpribish 1y ago
  Or not engaging enough to come to any conclusion - just chuckle - upvote. Useful, but not idiots nor villains
- zahlman 1y ago
  Just because you don't consciously believe something to be true, doesn't mean you don't care about its veracity. The null hypothesis is that people are willing to treat things as true based on their priors — which could be informed by things as simple as "this was posted on a website not known as a den of misinformation, and shared on HN" — while not actually devoting thought to an investigation of the truth.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - nailer 1y ago
    > "this was posted on a website not known as a den of misinformation, and shared on HN" I don't know whether you mean Threads or Bluesky but it sounds like you haven't used either.
    - natch 1y ago
      Yeah I have peeked into both and have never seen such a strident collection of vituperation, misinformation, and hatred. For people who claim to have left Twitter due to supposed toxicity, they definitely seem unacquainted with mirrors.
- username332211 1y ago
  Or they want knowledge of the hoax to spread, so as to protect the victim against further lies?
- pengaru 1y ago
  If your goal is to burn down tesla/musk, you logically promote everything remotely damaging. And there are plenty rational reasons to have that goal.
  - dkiebd 1y ago
    It’s funny that I just read the thread on rationalism and then come back to this one and someone posted this flawed nonsense.
zahlman 1y ago
Many of the people who suspected the story to be a fake were... not very well received in that thread, at least at first.
- nailer 1y ago
  Since HN is manually unflagging political posts, and not enforcing the 'uses HN for political advocacy' guideline the site is generally more combatative and there's a lot more hoaxes and conspiracy theories on the front page.
  - gonzobonzo 1y ago
    I've noticed this as well. It feels more and more like Reddit everyday.
    - modeless 1y ago
      The problem with having a site-wide rule against complaining that the site is becoming Reddit is that when it actually becomes true you're prohibited from telling the truth.
      - robocat 1y ago
        There is no site-wide prohibition - which is obvious since these comments would be prohibited. There are guidelines and each guideline is mostly loosely encouraged by the community here by downvoting - in effect becoming community standards. However a well written exception can receive upvotes (even though strictly against guidelines) because it is a community and individual judgement mostly gets priority. Flagging is different because it is a much stronger signal of violation of norms, however it is still mostly a signal from the HN user community. The moderation balance on HN appears to be quite functional to me (although I'm happy with many guidelines that others fight against). Just my opinion on the topic.
ameliaquining 1y ago
I read the thread when it had something like 50 comments, and most of them were treating it as either confirmed or at least potentially true, and using it as an opportunity to rail against corporate abuse in full generality, just like every HN thread about a negative story about a tech company. It was only later that the skeptical comments started to rise to the top.
- motorest 1y ago
  > I read the thread when it had something like 50 comments, and most of them were treating it as either confirmed or at least potentially true (...) I think you're trying to fabricate an alternative version of reality while being aware that the facts (i.e., the actual posts in the thread) are not on your side.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - potato3732842 1y ago
    The best part is that if the alleged reality is true it's an even bigger condemnation of the community. "no, they didn't believe it, they were engaging in strategic trolling and vote gaming" as if that doesn't imply a way more malicious frame of mind than some hapless idiot looking at the message and going "yup, seems legit, upvote we go". (disclaimer: I wasn't in those comments, IDK who's reality is true here)
    - aydyn 1y ago
      >(disclaimer: I wasn't in those comments, IDK who's reality is true here) As someone who did see that thread evolve, let me help you out. HN (being largely comprised of redditors) were more than happy to amplify pure misinformation because it was politically expedient. The evidence that it was fake was given fairly early on; a lot of people ignored it. It's certainly a condemnation of the userbase on this forum.
  - ameliaquining 1y ago
thebruce87m 1y ago
Exactly - they might have something to gain by convincing others it is true for example.
- kimbernator 1y ago
  There are non-nefarious reasons, too. If someone is unsure whether something is real they could upvote it to increase visibility and discussion.
deepsun 1y ago
According to HN guidelines, upvotes means something that sparks curiosity.

pilingual 1y ago

[dead]

armchairhacker 1y ago
https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/aaaah https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/aaaah
- jameslk 1y ago
  Thank you for this comic. It addresses a feeling I experience a lot on the internet
bboygravity 1y ago
If Tesla weren't constantly attacked as a supposed shady company by NYT and the rest of the psyop propaganda machine it wouldn't have gotten so many upvotes.
- gamblor956 1y ago
  If Tesla's owner didn't have a history of lying, and the company didn't have a history of attempting to evade legal disclosure obligations, people wouldn't think of it as a shady company.
- ipython 1y ago
  Totally not the actions of a shady company with cowboy culture built in from the top: https://www.reuters.com/technology/tesla-workers-shared-sensitive-images-recorded-by-customer-cars-2023-04-06/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/tesla-workers-shared-sens...

general1726 1y ago

[flagged]

natch 1y ago
More like it's on brand with the fantastic delusions people have about Musk. In reality Tesla and Musk are very good about privacy and leaving control with the user. But, you do you.
- gamblor956 1y ago
  Reminded of all those times that Musk had Tesla release crash details on X pinning the blame on the driver when it was in Tesla's interest to shift the blame for crashes. Yep, great commitment to privacy there. You know what automakers don't do that? Literally every other automaker. When they release those kinds of details, they do so in response to a court proceeding as part of the legal discovery process so that privacy concerns, etc. can be dealt with before the information is released.
  - protimewaster 1y ago
    Plus, they supposedly had it turn off the automatic features just before it detected an imminent crash, ensuring that they could always correctly tell everyone that "Auto Pilot was off at the time of the crash". Of course, that doesn't mean that it wasn't used in the 20 seconds prior. So, those details weren't actually insightful. They were just PR bullshit.
- general1726 1y ago
  Like spying people on internal cameras and then sharing it? https://www.reuters.com/technology/tesla-workers-shared-sensitive-images-recorded-by-customer-cars-2023-04-06/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/tesla-workers-shared-sens...
- scottbez1 1y ago
  This statement "Tesla and Musk are very good about privacy and leaving control with the user" is pretty clearly false [1]: > between 2019 and 2022, groups of Tesla employees privately shared via an internal messaging system sometimes highly invasive videos and images recorded by customers’ car cameras, according to interviews by Reuters with nine former employees. [1] https://www.reuters.com/technology/tesla-workers-shared-sensitive-images-recorded-by-customer-cars-2023-04-06/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/tesla-workers-shared-sens...

ufmace 1y ago

Well I see it's flagged for now, and I was one of the flaggers. IMO, at least by the time I saw it, there were more than enough red flags raised to say that having it on HN before more evidence is available is only flamebait.