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Thank you! It is extremely disappointing that the parent post was upvoted so highly while stating that crime was "so bad for so long." This was not a statement

Thank you! It is extremely disappointing that the parent post was upvoted so highly while stating that crime was "so bad for so long." This was not a statement grounded in any reality and reads like propaganda. HN (and the tech industry writ large) has increasingly embraced authoritarianism, even when not in service of any tangible objective, and seemingly for its own sake. It should at least be exposed for what it is.

Tainnor 1y ago
[flagged]
- jacquesm 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - Tainnor 1y ago
    It's frustrating precisely because even a small amount of bad faith actors can serve to poison the well. It's a problem that ultimately every online community has to deal with in some way.
- rayiner 1y ago
  Dude, we here on HN are the moderates. My muslim immigrant mom the other day posted on facebook “NYPD should independently rull [rule] NYC.” You have no idea how much the average person in the world hates criminals and social disorder. You’re just marinated in half a century of western liberal propaganda.
  - jacquesm 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - rayiner 1y ago
      I’m very moderate by world standards. For example I think we should give gang members trials before we put them all in jail forever. In my home country we don’t have a gang problem, but we have an Islamist problem. Our former PM handled that by having military special forces just kill islamists. She had a 70% approval rating before a bizarre coalition of leftist students and islamists overthrew the government. Western liberals are just outside the Overton window in terms of their toxic sympathy for criminals and disorder.
  - Tainnor 1y ago
    I hate criminals and social disorder too. You're part of the problem that I'm talking about. Instead of engaging with the issue at hand, you jump to wild assumptions about my positions, as if there were no alternatives between absolute anarchy and full-on authoritarianism. That's what I mean by "poisoning the well", you have 124268 karma and yet you can't help yourself but discuss in bad faith.
    - rayiner 1y ago
      You’re calling people “Nazis” and I’m the one arguing in bad faith? If you keep calling people Nazis for views on policing that are to the left of Nixon and Lee Kuan Yew then they’ll start assuming you’re an anarchist.
      - Tainnor 1y ago
        I didn't call anyone a Nazi because I don't like the inflationary use of that term. But the "Nazi bar problem" is, unfortunately, an established metaphor. It doesn't have to be about literal Nazis, it could be about tankies for all I care. The problem is the same. I'm going to keep calling people right-wing authoritarian and possibly fascist not for supporting more policing, but for supporting a person who has shown repeatedly that they want to rule as an authoritarian leader and is now implementing another step of that policy. It literally doesn't matter how bad crime in DC is, because the danger of allowing a person who has denied losing an election for 4 years to single-handedly take over the capital of the most powerful country on earth is so high, in the same way as it didn't matter whether communists actually did or didn't set fire to the Reichstag. This is what this is about. Not reasonable disagreement about policing, or immigration. But of course, your only response to opposing authoritarianism is that one has to be some sort of anarchist. Rest assured that I would react exactly the same if I was talking to a Tankie who was supporting some sort of Stalinist dictatorship.
        tomhow 1y ago
        The “problem” you keep referring to can be boiled down to: extremes exist. HN, like any large population sample, is a bell curve of opinion, which, by definition has tails of extreme opinion at each end. However the most extreme and toxic opinions rarely get seen because they are taken care of by community flags and moderator bans. They are covered by the first two words of the “In Comments” section of the guidelines: “be kind”, which apply to all of us, including you, in the way you are engaging with others in this thread. Please stop.

Tainnor 1y ago

[flagged]

jacquesm 1y ago
[flagged]
- Tainnor 1y ago
  It's frustrating precisely because even a small amount of bad faith actors can serve to poison the well. It's a problem that ultimately every online community has to deal with in some way.
rayiner 1y ago
Dude, we here on HN are the moderates. My muslim immigrant mom the other day posted on facebook “NYPD should independently rull [rule] NYC.” You have no idea how much the average person in the world hates criminals and social disorder. You’re just marinated in half a century of western liberal propaganda.
- jacquesm 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - rayiner 1y ago
    I’m very moderate by world standards. For example I think we should give gang members trials before we put them all in jail forever. In my home country we don’t have a gang problem, but we have an Islamist problem. Our former PM handled that by having military special forces just kill islamists. She had a 70% approval rating before a bizarre coalition of leftist students and islamists overthrew the government. Western liberals are just outside the Overton window in terms of their toxic sympathy for criminals and disorder.
- Tainnor 1y ago
  I hate criminals and social disorder too. You're part of the problem that I'm talking about. Instead of engaging with the issue at hand, you jump to wild assumptions about my positions, as if there were no alternatives between absolute anarchy and full-on authoritarianism. That's what I mean by "poisoning the well", you have 124268 karma and yet you can't help yourself but discuss in bad faith.
  - rayiner 1y ago
    You’re calling people “Nazis” and I’m the one arguing in bad faith? If you keep calling people Nazis for views on policing that are to the left of Nixon and Lee Kuan Yew then they’ll start assuming you’re an anarchist.
    - Tainnor 1y ago
      I didn't call anyone a Nazi because I don't like the inflationary use of that term. But the "Nazi bar problem" is, unfortunately, an established metaphor. It doesn't have to be about literal Nazis, it could be about tankies for all I care. The problem is the same. I'm going to keep calling people right-wing authoritarian and possibly fascist not for supporting more policing, but for supporting a person who has shown repeatedly that they want to rule as an authoritarian leader and is now implementing another step of that policy. It literally doesn't matter how bad crime in DC is, because the danger of allowing a person who has denied losing an election for 4 years to single-handedly take over the capital of the most powerful country on earth is so high, in the same way as it didn't matter whether communists actually did or didn't set fire to the Reichstag. This is what this is about. Not reasonable disagreement about policing, or immigration. But of course, your only response to opposing authoritarianism is that one has to be some sort of anarchist. Rest assured that I would react exactly the same if I was talking to a Tankie who was supporting some sort of Stalinist dictatorship.
      - tomhow 1y ago
        The “problem” you keep referring to can be boiled down to: extremes exist. HN, like any large population sample, is a bell curve of opinion, which, by definition has tails of extreme opinion at each end. However the most extreme and toxic opinions rarely get seen because they are taken care of by community flags and moderator bans. They are covered by the first two words of the “In Comments” section of the guidelines: “be kind”, which apply to all of us, including you, in the way you are engaging with others in this thread. Please stop.