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> but I'd say few tech people have been excited about Apple otherwise lately, as product or platform And probably fewer still consider switching to the alterna

> but I'd say few tech people have been excited about Apple otherwise lately, as product or platform And probably fewer still consider switching to the alternatives. Apple is, for better or worse, usually the least bad option.

yndoendo 1y ago
You have to pay me to use Apple, Microsoft, and Google products. None of those organizations are good. Apple and Google both use immutable locked down OSes on their main products that prevents improving device security, such as IP & DNS filtering / blocking. Microsoft user experience keeps getting worse. Latest version of Teams, as of today, says I'm at the "Calendar" screen and the navigation and content screen both show "Chat". "Calendar" was unpinned because I find Teams to be at interacting with content. No reason it should be a PDF viewer when the desktop application is actually usable allows for viewing chat and content at the same time. I understand developing for those platforms makes money or is needed for other products. Unless I have to develop products that support those companies, I will never pay with my personal income to support those organizations.
- herval 1y ago
  So you don't use a smartphone?
  - powgpu 1y ago
    Me and many people don't. Just laptop is good enough. Although currently switched back to apple silicon ATM for LLM, price and convince reasons, and as soonest linux on Apple Silicon reach some maturity, will switch over completely. However not using a smartphone is probably good for one's mental and physical healthy now days. It is understandable if your work require you to have one, but if I'm not getting paid, why would I even get a smartphone? Back in the 80's there are investment people managing billions dollars and deals over pen paper and a land line!
    - herval 1y ago
      back in the 1880s, people didn't even need refrigerators!
      - jama211 1y ago
        Hahahahaha, right?
    - fkyoureadthedoc 1y ago
      I'm the opposite, I didn't own a personal computer from like 2015 until last year when I built a new gaming PC. I had a MacBook Pro from work of course, but I just got by on my phone / iPad for my personal life.
    - jama211 1y ago
      Laptops are way heavier and more bulky than phones, and phones can do 90% of what a laptop can do across a cross section of most people’s daily tasks. You don’t have to be a genius to see the value in one. The mental health stuff is about social media apps and things, which aren’t mandatory. If you don’t want one because of some principled stance that’s fine, but don’t pretend there’s no value in them.
  - echelon 1y ago
    Because antitrust enforcement has been so lax, we only have two options. The DOJ/FTC/EU/ASEAN/etc. need to force a breakup of first party app stores, first party payment, first party web browser, and first party messaging. They also really need to require web installs without hidden menus and scare walls. We'll see a proliferation of offerings if that happens.
    - nozzlegear 1y ago
      We had three options, but people didn't like the Windows Phone enough to buy them. (I had one.)
      - fkyoureadthedoc 1y ago
        And WebOS, and Symbian, and Blackberry, and Tizen. Making an OS that people want to use is hard. Maybe impossible at this point if you want to compete against such large established ecosystems.
  - yndoendo 1y ago
    Apple and Google directly, No. I actively invest my personal income to organizations / businesses that are working to provide viable alternative. All are fruitful in reducing the barrier to a viable product. From improving hard-ware design to getting software in a stable state. Currently waiting on a phone from EU from a company on their attempt. Went with a Farirphone 4 running /e/OS/. Yes, /e/OS/ is based on AOSP. This phone has a high chance of full postmarketos support. It is the closet from being disconnected from Google that I find to be stable. Postmarketos would allow for a quick jump. In the mean time, still investing in companies and organizations that don't want to help Google in the smartphone market. It is a long-term investment.
rockemsockem 1y ago
For hardware only
- retired_account 1y ago
  Eh, macOS is still the UNIX with the most commercial software available. 26 feels like a misstep*, of course, but I’ll take it over a Windows environment any day. * Xcode 26 is kinda neat, though
  - criddell 1y ago
    A mac can (legally) run more software than any other computer. Obviously, macOS apps work, but you can also run most Windows and Linux applications (in a VM). There's also a bunch of iOS/iPadOS apps that can work and some Android apps can run through BlueStacks.
    - Sebb767 1y ago
      > but you can also run most Windows and Linux applications (in a VM). This is really just a cheap rhetorical trick. Linux [0] can run just as much software, if you include VMs, but you can't legally virtualize MacOS, therefore buying a Mac is the only way to legally run their software, in addition to everything else. Now, you are technically correct, but the casual interpretation of > Eh, macOS is still the UNIX with the most commercial software available. isn't really that you can simply run everything unavailable on MacOS in a VM (or several layers of VMs). It's the same as arguing that Powerpoint is all you ever need, as it is Turing complete. [0] And so can Windows, if you run said VMs in a Linux VM.
- jama211 1y ago
  It’s ok to have preferences, it’s not ok to say “x is objectively bad” just because you personally don’t like it.
  - rockemsockem 1y ago
    Your comment does what your comment says isn't okay. Maybe you shouldn't go around policing people's opinions.
worik 1y ago
No. Linux is better. That worm has turned, at least five years ago
- powgpu 1y ago
  for X_86 family for sure, but the experience on other chip set such as Apple Silicon (maybe the arms) for desktop usage are quite rough around the edges.
  - deaddodo 1y ago
    Linux works fine on ARM devices. The problem is lack of good (non-Apple) ARM devices, not Linux.
  - trelane 1y ago
    "Apple silicon?" Man, how well does OSX run on a raspberry pi? Clearly it's the inferior OS. /s
  - spookie 1y ago
    Never had issues with other ARM chips other than the Apple co-designed ones. Oh, and if you have problems running Linux on Macs... That isn't Linux's fault.
    - SirHumphrey 1y ago
      But Apple ARM chips currently represent most of the laptop and desktop computer market share for ARM processors. Sure, Linux in embedded and semi-embedded capacity works perfectly well with almost all ARM (and even RISC-V) processors, but I doubt most of the people here will be switching to raspberry pi as the daily driver anytime soon. Hopefully either Asahi support improves in the near future or Snapdragon X Elite support in Linux becomes a bit better.
- fkyoureadthedoc 1y ago
  When someone makes a SteamOS level "just works" distro for desktop / gaming I'll probably happily switch

yndoendo 1y ago

You have to pay me to use Apple, Microsoft, and Google products. None of those organizations are good. Apple and Google both use immutable locked down OSes on their main products that prevents improving device security, such as IP & DNS filtering / blocking. Microsoft user experience keeps getting worse. Latest version of Teams, as of today, says I'm at the "Calendar" screen and the navigation and content screen both show "Chat". "Calendar" was unpinned because I find Teams to be at interacting with content. No reason it should be a PDF viewer when the desktop application is actually usable allows for viewing chat and content at the same time. I understand developing for those platforms makes money or is needed for other products. Unless I have to develop products that support those companies, I will never pay with my personal income to support those organizations.

herval 1y ago
So you don't use a smartphone?
- powgpu 1y ago
  Me and many people don't. Just laptop is good enough. Although currently switched back to apple silicon ATM for LLM, price and convince reasons, and as soonest linux on Apple Silicon reach some maturity, will switch over completely. However not using a smartphone is probably good for one's mental and physical healthy now days. It is understandable if your work require you to have one, but if I'm not getting paid, why would I even get a smartphone? Back in the 80's there are investment people managing billions dollars and deals over pen paper and a land line!
  - herval 1y ago
    back in the 1880s, people didn't even need refrigerators!
    - jama211 1y ago
      Hahahahaha, right?
  - fkyoureadthedoc 1y ago
    I'm the opposite, I didn't own a personal computer from like 2015 until last year when I built a new gaming PC. I had a MacBook Pro from work of course, but I just got by on my phone / iPad for my personal life.
  - jama211 1y ago
    Laptops are way heavier and more bulky than phones, and phones can do 90% of what a laptop can do across a cross section of most people’s daily tasks. You don’t have to be a genius to see the value in one. The mental health stuff is about social media apps and things, which aren’t mandatory. If you don’t want one because of some principled stance that’s fine, but don’t pretend there’s no value in them.
- echelon 1y ago
  Because antitrust enforcement has been so lax, we only have two options. The DOJ/FTC/EU/ASEAN/etc. need to force a breakup of first party app stores, first party payment, first party web browser, and first party messaging. They also really need to require web installs without hidden menus and scare walls. We'll see a proliferation of offerings if that happens.
  - nozzlegear 1y ago
    We had three options, but people didn't like the Windows Phone enough to buy them. (I had one.)
    - fkyoureadthedoc 1y ago
      And WebOS, and Symbian, and Blackberry, and Tizen. Making an OS that people want to use is hard. Maybe impossible at this point if you want to compete against such large established ecosystems.
- yndoendo 1y ago
  Apple and Google directly, No. I actively invest my personal income to organizations / businesses that are working to provide viable alternative. All are fruitful in reducing the barrier to a viable product. From improving hard-ware design to getting software in a stable state. Currently waiting on a phone from EU from a company on their attempt. Went with a Farirphone 4 running /e/OS/. Yes, /e/OS/ is based on AOSP. This phone has a high chance of full postmarketos support. It is the closet from being disconnected from Google that I find to be stable. Postmarketos would allow for a quick jump. In the mean time, still investing in companies and organizations that don't want to help Google in the smartphone market. It is a long-term investment.

rockemsockem 1y ago

For hardware only

retired_account 1y ago
Eh, macOS is still the UNIX with the most commercial software available. 26 feels like a misstep*, of course, but I’ll take it over a Windows environment any day. * Xcode 26 is kinda neat, though
- criddell 1y ago
  A mac can (legally) run more software than any other computer. Obviously, macOS apps work, but you can also run most Windows and Linux applications (in a VM). There's also a bunch of iOS/iPadOS apps that can work and some Android apps can run through BlueStacks.
  - Sebb767 1y ago
    > but you can also run most Windows and Linux applications (in a VM). This is really just a cheap rhetorical trick. Linux [0] can run just as much software, if you include VMs, but you can't legally virtualize MacOS, therefore buying a Mac is the only way to legally run their software, in addition to everything else. Now, you are technically correct, but the casual interpretation of > Eh, macOS is still the UNIX with the most commercial software available. isn't really that you can simply run everything unavailable on MacOS in a VM (or several layers of VMs). It's the same as arguing that Powerpoint is all you ever need, as it is Turing complete. [0] And so can Windows, if you run said VMs in a Linux VM.
jama211 1y ago
It’s ok to have preferences, it’s not ok to say “x is objectively bad” just because you personally don’t like it.
- rockemsockem 1y ago
  Your comment does what your comment says isn't okay. Maybe you shouldn't go around policing people's opinions.

worik 1y ago

No. Linux is better. That worm has turned, at least five years ago

powgpu 1y ago
for X_86 family for sure, but the experience on other chip set such as Apple Silicon (maybe the arms) for desktop usage are quite rough around the edges.
- deaddodo 1y ago
  Linux works fine on ARM devices. The problem is lack of good (non-Apple) ARM devices, not Linux.
- trelane 1y ago
  "Apple silicon?" Man, how well does OSX run on a raspberry pi? Clearly it's the inferior OS. /s
- spookie 1y ago
  Never had issues with other ARM chips other than the Apple co-designed ones. Oh, and if you have problems running Linux on Macs... That isn't Linux's fault.
  - SirHumphrey 1y ago
    But Apple ARM chips currently represent most of the laptop and desktop computer market share for ARM processors. Sure, Linux in embedded and semi-embedded capacity works perfectly well with almost all ARM (and even RISC-V) processors, but I doubt most of the people here will be switching to raspberry pi as the daily driver anytime soon. Hopefully either Asahi support improves in the near future or Snapdragon X Elite support in Linux becomes a bit better.
fkyoureadthedoc 1y ago
When someone makes a SteamOS level "just works" distro for desktop / gaming I'll probably happily switch