4 ms·

Sure. Where does the money come from if nobody is working?

mannewalis 1y ago
Plenty of people will be working, just not everyone will make the jump to a post-AI society, especially older folks I imagine.
- unnamed76ri 1y ago
  I seem to remember a Star Trek episode (not sure which series) where a character is talking about how they’ve evolved past the need for money. Badly paraphrased, and maybe just as badly remembered, but my thought at the time was that if no one is getting paid, how do get low level crew members to sign on? I’d much rather be an officer than scrubbing torpedo tubes.
  - jmkr 1y ago
    Isn't it that you sign up for Star Fleet, go through school, take tests, and then get assigned to a position? Not everybody is in Star Fleet, so I assume people want the ability to travel the stars and they'd be happy enough scrubbing torpedo tubes.
  - mockingloris 1y ago
    @unnamed76ri Haha, I love the Star Trek nod! Their post-money world sounds great, but where I'm from, hustle economy/treet vendors, okada riders, shows how hard it is to imagine no one needing cash. Even if AI automates a ton, people will still want incentives for less glamorous jobs. Maybe UBI isn’t about scrapping money but ensuring a baseline so folks aren’t stuck scrubbing metaphorical torpedo tubes. What’s your take—could a partial UBI make “low-level” work more voluntary? └── Yarn me
    - unnamed76ri 1y ago
      I don’t know, I won’t claim expertise on this subject. But it feels like any kind of UBI risks creating a permanent underclass of people much like current welfare programs that carry no incentive to get off said programs do. Every economic system has its flaws and can be exploited. Capitalism has been responsible for lifting billions of people out of poverty. But it’s also been corrupted by cronyism. The coming AI revolution will likely cause capitalism’s issues to be more pronounced.
    - billy99k 1y ago
      When generations of people are on UBI,and this is all they know, the system starts to require more capital and tax revenue, until it collapses. I think one other aspect of this system is that if you are getting UBI, you give up your voting rights.
  - filoeleven 1y ago
    "AI will take all of the jobs!" "People will still have to scrub the torpedo tubes!" How are these not mutually exclusive?
    - unnamed76ri 1y ago
      Well the first quote is something you made up. And the second is a paraphrase of something I wrote. So yes, mutually exclusive.
appreciatorBus 1y ago
2022 "We need to do a socialism bc climate change!" 2025 "We need to do a socialism bc AI!" TBC IMO human caused climate change and other forms of environmental damage are very real and worthy of our best solutions, but the idea that collectivism solves environment, that collectivist govts would never decide to damage the environment in pursuit of short term aims is laughable.
- vouwfietsman 1y ago
  .... which is not really about UBI, which the post is about.
  - mockingloris 1y ago
    @vouwfietsman Staying on topic;had any thoughts as to what happens if/when this occurs? I think about it a lot I won't lie. I know certain jobs will be around for a while but, the general populace will be a different matter. └── Yarn me; Lets talk, I'm genuinely interested
t-3 1y ago
With AI/robots doing all the work, money can be created and distributed based on production and logistical efficiency.
- d00mB0t 1y ago
  [dead]
- mockingloris 1y ago
  @t-3 We share similar logic.
- billy99k 1y ago
  I would much rather have Capitalism and own my own work bots, thanks.
  - pillefitz 1y ago
    Reminds me of the lives of the great philosophers, who, in order to freely contemplate, owned slaves to do the necessary work
  - t-3 1y ago
    That's not precluded. With enough robots, everyone could own their own means of production. Centralized distribution is probably the most resource-efficient when the system has enough insight, but for more dynamic environments a distributed model with local exchange would be ideal.
mockingloris 1y ago
@billy99k Great question; funding UBI is the crux of the debate. In Nigeria, I’ve seen industries like taxi services get upended by apps like Uber and Bolt, leaving union leaders/cabals scrambling for the scraps. AI could amplify this, automating jobs faster than new ones emerge. One idea is taxing automated systems—say, a levy on AI-driven platforms or robots replacing workers. This could redistribute wealth without assuming zero employment. For example, Nigeria’s government already taxes digital platforms; scaling that to fund UBI isn’t unthinkable. What do you think about targeting automation profits specifically? └── Yarn me
- billy99k 1y ago
  This will work in the short term, but over time, less and less companies will want to fund something that will be taxed at such a high rate. I also think that if this much tax money is going to enable people to not work, the people paying taxes should have more control over how the money is used. If health care is universal, more control over foods consumed risky health-related activities.
  - filoeleven 1y ago
    > This will work in the short term, but over time, less and less companies will want to fund something that will be taxed at such a high rate. It only needs to work in the short term for the idea of "the for-profit company" to go the way of the buggy whip, and then we can move on to more interesting things.
bicepjai 1y ago
How about we tag-team the dull tasks and the thrilling ones? We’ll scrub those tubes and dive into an exciting starship project. Welcome to our socialistic tech society!

Plenty of people will be working, just not everyone will make the jump to a post-AI society, especially older folks I imagine.

unnamed76ri 1y ago
I seem to remember a Star Trek episode (not sure which series) where a character is talking about how they’ve evolved past the need for money. Badly paraphrased, and maybe just as badly remembered, but my thought at the time was that if no one is getting paid, how do get low level crew members to sign on? I’d much rather be an officer than scrubbing torpedo tubes.
- jmkr 1y ago
  Isn't it that you sign up for Star Fleet, go through school, take tests, and then get assigned to a position? Not everybody is in Star Fleet, so I assume people want the ability to travel the stars and they'd be happy enough scrubbing torpedo tubes.
- mockingloris 1y ago
  @unnamed76ri Haha, I love the Star Trek nod! Their post-money world sounds great, but where I'm from, hustle economy/treet vendors, okada riders, shows how hard it is to imagine no one needing cash. Even if AI automates a ton, people will still want incentives for less glamorous jobs. Maybe UBI isn’t about scrapping money but ensuring a baseline so folks aren’t stuck scrubbing metaphorical torpedo tubes. What’s your take—could a partial UBI make “low-level” work more voluntary? └── Yarn me
  - unnamed76ri 1y ago
    I don’t know, I won’t claim expertise on this subject. But it feels like any kind of UBI risks creating a permanent underclass of people much like current welfare programs that carry no incentive to get off said programs do. Every economic system has its flaws and can be exploited. Capitalism has been responsible for lifting billions of people out of poverty. But it’s also been corrupted by cronyism. The coming AI revolution will likely cause capitalism’s issues to be more pronounced.
  - billy99k 1y ago
    When generations of people are on UBI,and this is all they know, the system starts to require more capital and tax revenue, until it collapses. I think one other aspect of this system is that if you are getting UBI, you give up your voting rights.
- filoeleven 1y ago
  "AI will take all of the jobs!" "People will still have to scrub the torpedo tubes!" How are these not mutually exclusive?
  - unnamed76ri 1y ago
    Well the first quote is something you made up. And the second is a paraphrase of something I wrote. So yes, mutually exclusive.

appreciatorBus 1y ago

2022 "We need to do a socialism bc climate change!" 2025 "We need to do a socialism bc AI!" TBC IMO human caused climate change and other forms of environmental damage are very real and worthy of our best solutions, but the idea that collectivism solves environment, that collectivist govts would never decide to damage the environment in pursuit of short term aims is laughable.

vouwfietsman 1y ago
.... which is not really about UBI, which the post is about.
- mockingloris 1y ago
  @vouwfietsman Staying on topic;had any thoughts as to what happens if/when this occurs? I think about it a lot I won't lie. I know certain jobs will be around for a while but, the general populace will be a different matter. └── Yarn me; Lets talk, I'm genuinely interested

t-3 1y ago

With AI/robots doing all the work, money can be created and distributed based on production and logistical efficiency.

d00mB0t 1y ago
[dead]
mockingloris 1y ago
@t-3 We share similar logic.
billy99k 1y ago
I would much rather have Capitalism and own my own work bots, thanks.
- pillefitz 1y ago
  Reminds me of the lives of the great philosophers, who, in order to freely contemplate, owned slaves to do the necessary work
- t-3 1y ago
  That's not precluded. With enough robots, everyone could own their own means of production. Centralized distribution is probably the most resource-efficient when the system has enough insight, but for more dynamic environments a distributed model with local exchange would be ideal.

mockingloris 1y ago

@billy99k Great question; funding UBI is the crux of the debate. In Nigeria, I’ve seen industries like taxi services get upended by apps like Uber and Bolt, leaving union leaders/cabals scrambling for the scraps. AI could amplify this, automating jobs faster than new ones emerge. One idea is taxing automated systems—say, a levy on AI-driven platforms or robots replacing workers. This could redistribute wealth without assuming zero employment. For example, Nigeria’s government already taxes digital platforms; scaling that to fund UBI isn’t unthinkable. What do you think about targeting automation profits specifically? └── Yarn me

billy99k 1y ago
This will work in the short term, but over time, less and less companies will want to fund something that will be taxed at such a high rate. I also think that if this much tax money is going to enable people to not work, the people paying taxes should have more control over how the money is used. If health care is universal, more control over foods consumed risky health-related activities.
- filoeleven 1y ago
  > This will work in the short term, but over time, less and less companies will want to fund something that will be taxed at such a high rate. It only needs to work in the short term for the idea of "the for-profit company" to go the way of the buggy whip, and then we can move on to more interesting things.

bicepjai 1y ago

How about we tag-team the dull tasks and the thrilling ones? We’ll scrub those tubes and dive into an exciting starship project. Welcome to our socialistic tech society!